Innate Wisdom Podcast

Season 1 | Episode 5

What Your OBGYN Won't Tell You Part 2 with Morley Robbins: Prenatal Vitamins, Pregnancy Loss, Gestational Diabetes, Preeclampsia, Pregnancy Anemia & Menopause

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What It's About:

Today I continue my conversation with Morley Robbins, researcher, speaker, author, teacher, and founder of the Root Cause Protocol Institute. In our last episode we covered may of the issues girls and women may face in our reproductive years. In today’s episode, we’re shifting the conversation to focus largely on pregnancy, the truth behind pregnancy anemia, complications like low platelets, preeclampsia, cholestasis, gestational diabetes, and how to support yourself if experiencing these issues, prenatal vitamins, keeping up breastmilk supply and alternatives when this is not the goal or possible, early menopause, hormone replacement therapy, and so much more.

Listen to hear more about:

- The truth about prenatal vitamins
- Why you're pregnant & anemic
- Why you have low platelets
- Causes & support for pregnancy complications like gestational diabetes & preeclampsia
- Pregnancy loss & miscarriage
- What you can do to support breastmilk production
- Alternatives to baby formula
- Why you're going through menopause early
- What you need to know about hormone replacement therapy
- And much more!


[00:00:00] Loren: Thank you so much, Morley, for joining us again for part two of our conversation. I'm so excited to have you here again, and thank you so much for your time. 

[00:00:08] Morley: Absolutely, delighted to be here, Loren, and looking forward to seeing where our conversation takes us today. 

[00:00:15] Loren: Absolutely. Last time we covered a lot around the female cycle, fertility amenorrhea, things like PCOS, acne, hair loss, skin conditions.

I would love to now shift the conversation to the sort of prenatal pregnancy and postpartum period. So would love to jump into, probably one of the most common questions that I get is, What about pregnancy anemia? This is probably the most common question I get, and I get people reaching out to me saying, “Oh my gosh, my iron hemoglobin is low. I need to raise it. Or I can't give birth at home, and my midwife is trying to push iron supplements or even infusions. What should I do?” And what's your take here on what's happening behind the scenes and what can women do to support themselves? 

[00:01:12] Morley: Yeah, great question. I think we have to go back to basics, and based on an article written by Ray Peat, women absorb three times more iron than men, but pregnant women absorb 10 times more.

That's the real crux of the problem, is there's a significant difference between how iron presents in the blood and how iron presents in the tissue. And what people need to understand is that the blood test that's routinely done regardless whether you're pregnant or not, the blood test is not measuring the iron in the tissue.

And people think what? They're usually surprised to hear that cuz they thought that the ferritin test was measuring their iron status inside the tissue. But the ferritin protein is inside the cell, right? Yeah. But it's way more complicated than that. So let me just clarify that cuz that will set the stage for additional comments.

There's actually four different forms of ferritin in the human body. There's four kinds. There are different expressions of ferritin. There's something called heavy chain, which involves copper enzymes and light chain that does not involve copper. And that's a very important distinction because there's actually two forms of heavy chain.

There's mitoferrin, which is found in our mitochondria. If there's too much iron in the mitochondria, it's a copper dependent function to get the iron into that mitoferrin, so it doesn't react. That's a really important distinction. And then inside the cell, it's just called heavy chain ferritin. And again, the copper enzyme, the ferroxidase enzyme, enables the iron to go in, but it also allows it to come out.

The heavy chain ferritin is like an ATM machine. In and out. In and out, right? That's great. But the light chain, which is found principally in our liver, is like a bank fault where you need a key and a combination, but the manager is missing, and so there's no copper involved in there. And so the iron goes in to be lost forever.

And especially when you go into a copper deficient state, the light chain expression increases. It's kind of, it's kind of scary. Right? And when did they first figure this out? A 1928 group of scientists at the University of Wisconsin in Madison, ended up by Dr. Hart, figured out that when they denied copper to rodents, the amount of iron in their liver took off like a rocket.

When was it proven genetically? Hmm. Kim and Gonzalez, January, 2021. Just last year, Just not even 15 months ago. What they did was they denied copper, to animals, some little rodents, but they studied 10 different genes. They had four iron, four copper, and five zinc. So I guess that's actually 13, isn't it?

But what they discovered is that, When they denied copper, there was only one gene that took off that upregulated, as they say. And that was the ferritin light chain. Ah, the plot thickens. So then in a situation of copper deficiency, ferritin light chain rises so that the iron that's getting dysregulated cuz there's no copper around, goes into the ferritin light chain to be stored.

Those are the three principal forms. And then there's a fourth form called serum ferritin. And people have been trained, both practitioners and their patients who've been trained like circus bears to believe that that serum ferritin is an accurate reflection of what's going on in the cell. No, that's not true at all, and that was probably the most engaging part of my recent conversation with Dr. Macola. He kept pressing on that issue and I wouldn't back down. He was really impressed that there's a complete misunderstanding about this, but it goes back to some very important research by Drio 1983 in more recent research by Dr. Kell and Pretorius in 2014, what happens is that the ferritin protein inside the cell needs to go into the stomach of the cell called lysosome to be broken down, to release the iron so that it can be used.

It gets put aside like it's in a storage locker, and the lysosome says, “Well, let's open up the storage locker so we can get that iron”. I'm sure people are like, Huh, a copper deficient body. A body struggling with copper body struggling with bioavailable copper, lysosomes don't work right. What happens is the body senses there's a problem. It dumps the iron in the lysosome, cleaves off 10 amino acids from the ferritin and secretes it into the bloodstream, and the serum ferritin that shows up in a blood test are empty shotgun shells, not my idea. Dr. Rosio, Dr. Worwood, W-O-R-W-O-O-D. I think it was also in 1983. And then Kell. So we got three separate citations that basically say, uh, there's more to the story folks.

And so I think one of the explanations for anemia of pregnancy is that they're using the ferritin blood test, which is completely wrong. I have renamed Ferritin ‘error-tin’ because people, so many mistakes are made around that one marker. And what's principally important for pregnancy is to know the hemoglobin status, not the ferritin status.

Ferritin is not an accurate marker for iron metabolism or availability of iron in the body, but hemoglobin is much more important. And there's a concept that I'm sure you've discussed with your clients called hemo-dilution, that over the course of the pregnancy, a woman is gonna have what would be considered a normal hemoglobin around 12 or 12 and a half, maybe in high 13.

But over the course of the pregnancy, it's gonna go down naturally cuz that's what Mother Nature wants. And Phillip Steer, he's a noted British OBGYN, did a study in 1995 and he studied 150,000 live births, I would've been impressed if you had done 1500, and this study was again published in 1995 Steer, S T E E R, and it's looking at correlating mother's hemoglobin with the birth way to the baby.

And what they discovered was that the healthiest babies, hands down, the healthiest babies were born to women whose hemoglobin was between 8.5 and 9.5. Now why is that a problem? Because in the world of modern obstetrics practitioners get nervous when the hemoglobin gets below 12. They go bonkers when it gets below 10.

And a lot of birthing centers or midwives who do home births won't allow anyone who has a hemoglobin below 10 to engage in their services. They're all shutted back into the hospital setting where it's just a, it's an, ‘Oh my God’ experience. And it's a complete distortion of the facts and the science because they don't know about Dr. Steer's research. And the other mistake that's made is there is a completely false narrative that more iron is going to ensure that the woman doesn't bleed out at the birth, which is like, Oh my gosh, you've got it completely backwards. And they do. And the research is very clear that what controls clotting and the stopping of bleeding is called microcirculation.

It's a very specific term, and it's where little arterioles connect to veins. That's the very essence of microcirculation, and that's the domain of Copper And Dale Schuschke, S C H U S C H K E. Dale Schuschke, in the late eighties, nineties and early two thousands, did many, many studies to prove that copper runs and regulates the microcirculation.

And what's happening is more and more women are producing what are called RCP babies. They're doing the protocol even after they've had several children before they decide, well, I'm gonna try to do it different way. I'm gonna follow Mother Nature. That's really what the RCP is. Let's see what Mother Nature has to say and what's exciting them, but shocking their practitioners is their hemoglobin's lower.

Their symptoms during the pregnancy are almost nonexistent. And they're having minimal, if any, blood loss with the delivery all because within the RCP there is a complete focus on magnesium and copper and retinol cuz the retinol is gonna make sure the copper's bioavailable and when coppers bioavailable, it’s going to regulate the iron.

And there isn't so much concern on the iron and vitamin D side because we know, and we've discussed this, but iron and vitamin D are not found in breast milk. Well I think that's significant. I think mother nature must have a reason. Well, there is a reason because Mother Nature knows that the newborn baby is very vulnerable to infection.

Because its immune system doesn't really come online for a couple years. What's the basis of the immune system? It's the download of copper. You and I have a liver that has about seven milligrams of copper, and that's an average adult liver's content of copper. But when we were born, we were born with livers that had 70 milligrams of copper 10 times, and then we're supposed to get the download of retinol through the breast milk from mom and that retinol and that copper forms the backbone of the immune system for the first two years of life.

So this is completely foreign to conventional practitioners, but it's absolutely central to understanding what's going on and the concept of pregnancy. The two quotations that I absolutely love about pregnancy one is from Mildred Sealy. And the other is from Sir Joseph Barcroft. So Mildred Sealy was a physician in the sixties to early 2000, um, MD public health degree.

She started out as a drug researcher, and when she discovered that all the drugs she was researching were causing magnesium loss, she left big pharma and devoted the bulk of her career, like 45 years teaching people about the importance of magnesium. And her signature comment about pregnancy is pregnancy is a magnesium deficient state.

Well, that's important to know because magnesium deficiency puts a lot of stress on the body, and a low magnesium state is very akin to an inflammatory state. And so we've got this little fetus growing inside this environment, and then we come to Dr. Barcroft. Famous Alpine physiologist, Sir Joseph Barcroft, and he studied mountain climbers in the first half of his career.

He was fascinated by how those mountain climbers were so active in thin air. And in his fifties and sixties, he decided to switch his focus from mountain climbing to obstetrics. And here's his statement, “Pregnancy is Mount Everest in utero”. Now, if anyone's done any kind of mountain climbing, I mean, I've only been on baby mountains, but if you go into uh, K1, K2, we're talking about very thin air.

You're on a mental high, but here in North Carolina it's 21% oxygen. Maybe it's like 17 or something for you in the Colorado area, but when you get up to big altitude, three or four miles high, you're at 3% oxygen. And what's the percent oxygen in a womb? In the first trimester. The first trimester, the first 12 plus weeks, it's 1 to 3% oxygen.

Oh wow. Wait a minute. That sounds anaerobic to me. Yes, it is anaerobic. And what's really, really important, and it explains so much because there's so much confusion on this, but in an anaerobic state you make energy anaerobically. You don't make it with oxygen cuz there's not enough oxygen. And so there's 10 enzymes to make energy anaerobically, but eight of them require magnesium.

Then we're back to Mildred Sealy, pregnancy is a magnesium deficient state, and what I just learned the other day is that one of the real reasons why there's so much unrest in the woman's womb in the first trimester versus second trimester is in the first trimester, it's the adrenals that are having to produce serotonin to deal with the oxidative stress.

Most women's adrenals aren't strong enough, and so it's the womb that kicks in in the second trimester to begin to produce the serotonin. And so that becomes a very important addition of antioxidant support, cuz that's what serotonin is. It's an antioxidant and it helps to neutralize the oxidative stress that's building in the growing fetus.

So there's a lot of confusion around this, as you well know. But in large part, it's because people don't realize that the fetus is, in fact, a parasite. Living inside an aerobic being, the life form of the unborn child is very different and it's making energy completely different than the mom. And then I think the absolute capstone issue, we might have talked about this in our first conversation, but there's three key copper enzymes that are involved in pregnancy.

We know about Cerullo plasmas, which is the master antioxidant protein found in our blood, and it expresses many different enzymes, but the most important of which is called Ferro oxidase. Ferro iron oxidase. Let me oxidize the iron so that it's in a form that I can attach to proteins. Two principle proteins transferrin, get the iron back into the bone marrow so it can make more red blood cells, other protein: ferritin.

Oh wow. That must be really important for that ferritin blood test. Right? So that's one protein ceruloplasmin. There's a second called hephaestin, H E P H A E S T I N, and it's very critical for making sure that the iron can get out of the tissue and get back into the bloodstream. There's a third protein called zyklopen.

And zyklopen is found exclusively. In the placenta. And what I just learned recently, just in the last couple weeks, is that I knew that in a pregnant woman's body, all three of those proteins were expressing the ferroxidase enzyme. That means that it's a copper dependent enzyme that's regulating copper and iron in the pregnant woman's body and the baby, and that's a big deal.

But what I learned just a couple weeks ago is that all three of those enzymes are expressing in the placenta. What should really catch people's attention? Who's pregnant? What's the doctor worried about? Vitamin D status and iron status? That's all they talk about. And again, they are not found in breast milk.

What is absolutely essential to deal with an anaerobic environment. Better have magnesium, better have copper, and for fetal development, for fetal brain development, there is no nutrient that's more important than retinol. And there's no more important nutrient to make copper bioavailable to regulate those three key enzymes, transferring copper and iron duct between mom and baby.

And they're not testing for magnesium, copper, or retinol. And that to me is an absolute miscarriage of justice. I think it's malpractice, to be honest, to completely ignore the nutrients that are essential for healthy fetal brain development and the proper regulation of copper and iron. Back to the earlier comments about three times more iron and 10 times more iron in a pregnant woman.

So Lauren's comment, yeah, these women are absorbing 10 times more iron, but they're showing up anemic. Well, it's the wrong blood test. It's being measured in the blood, and they're completely ignoring the copper enzymes that are regulating the flow of iron in the body between mom and baby. And this idea that iron is a dipstick function, it's just plain wrong because it's a very sophisticated part of our metabolism.

It's a very complicated part of our metabolism. And just to add a little degree of difficulty, every second of every day, every second, we need to make 2.5 million red blood cells every second. So we've been chatting now for about 15 minutes times 60 times 2.5. And actually in the course of 24 hours, we make 2 trillion red blood cells.

[00:19:50] Loren: A lot of red blood cells. 

[00:19:52] Morley: Yeah, it's a lot of red blood cells. And what happens back to hemodilution, those red blood cells get spread over one and a half people and that's what causes the numbers to go down. Right. The copper is being spread, but what's happening to the copper is the copper is being downloaded to the baby and the third trimester, an enormous amount, 70 milligrams of copper.

And that I think, sets the stage for copper efficiency in the mom. And then is that gonna affect iron metabolism? Of course it is. But that's the way mother nature wants it. And so it's just all sorts of confusion. The mom is very low in copper, but high in ceruloplasmin. The baby's very high in copper, but very low in ceruloplasmin cuz the ceruloplasmin doesn't really start to get expressed until the baby's outside the mother and getting breast fed.

Getting breast fed. When you break it down into what's the biology of it, what's the timeframe of it, what are some of the mineral dynamics, it makes such perfect sense. But people don't know all this. But that's why these conversations are so important to give people new information so they can make better decisions about the pregnancy.

[00:21:05] Loren: Awesome. Yes, I agree. So I just wanna break down little by little what we covered just now. So in regards to pregnancy anemia, the first thing we wanna look at is the test that we're actually using. So definitely I'd have seen midwives use ferritin, and typically that is more midwives are using hemoglobin, which is good, but still they have very strict levels and minimums, maximums.

So if your midwife or your doctor is using ferritin to measure your iron status, Maybe advocate for hemoglobin status, that would give you a more accurate picture of iron status in the body. Cause I believe around 70 to 80% of iron is carried into hemoglobin. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. So a more accurate picture of iron status in the body.

That said, there's still a caveat where even if you do show up low, quote unquote, so typically the cutoff for home birth is 10. That might not be such a big issue. And so you have to kind of wrap your head around what you're comfortable with, what your midwife is comfortable with, and work in partnership with them.

But there is research out there that does show that 8.5 to 9.5 is potentially a more optimal range, a more optimal natural range. Not to say, you know, if your hemoglobin is above that, that's a bad thing either. But we have very extreme and pretty high minimums. It may not be as concerning as typical. And I say that because also I do know of women that were given iron transfusions or iron supplements during pregnancy in the third trimester.

Also, various of them were not retested to actually see it's more of a compliance thing rather than actual concern, um, and especially the iron transfusions, they end up bleeding out anyway. So it's not necessarily this or that. I think it's more complex, as you were saying. And so copper and retinol seem to be really important when it comes to dealing with pregnancy anemia because copper regulates the micro vasculature.

[00:23:29] Morley: Oh, micro circulation. 

[00:23:30] Loren: Yeah, micro circulation. Which is also important for low platelets, I think, because a lot of women deal with that in the third trimester as well. So you have copper that's regulating all of this. So copper cannot function without vitamin A retinol. So you need to make sure you're getting both in good amounts before pregnancy even starts.

And especially if you're dealing with this in the third trimester, really work to intake those two nutrients in a very strategic way and amply so you can hopefully have the birth that you desire. And copper is also important for many other things too, not just in regards to hemoglobin, but also I think there's a whole other aspect of it, the natural part where the baby is receiving this download of copper from mother. So that's kind of why there may be a natural dip in hemoglobin levels, but also you need copper throughout the pregnancy to absorb iron from the stomach, transfer between baby and mom, and regulate serotonin as well.

So there's a bunch of other reasons to have good copper levels throughout pregnancy. So anything else you would add to that Morley?

[00:24:46] Morley: The biggest secret on planet Earth is that copper is essential for all life. Hands down, it's embarrassing that we don't know this, and it's just a function of the folks that wanna keep this kind of information under wraps.

But you can't make energy without copper, and you can't neutralize exhaust without copper, and you can't regulate neurotransmitters and hormones without copper. Now we're talking about micro circulation. And what I learned in a recent article by a very gifted scientist named Gregorios in 1968 wrote a very important paper where he was measuring the copper distribution and the liver cells.

The liver cells are called hepatocytes. Hepato- is liver, in I guess Latin. And we know there's a lot of copper in the mitochondria that goes without saying it's, People don't realize how many mitochondria they've got. It's 40 quadrillion, that's 15 zeros. For those of you who aren't mathematical gearheads, that's a lot of mitochondria.

And there's 50,000 atoms of copper in each mitochondria, courtesy of the penetrating research of Paul Cobin at Auburn University, 2004, 2006. So then we like, okay, so that's a lot of copper. So this Gregorios 1968 discovers that there's as much copper in the nucleus as there is in the mitochondria. If we were smart foreign, we'd drop the mic right now and go about our day, just to make sure people get that.

That's a staggering amount of copper. And it's like, well, yeah, but like what does it do? Well, you cannot engage in methylation without copper. Anybody have MTHFR? Anybody worried about their methylation? That's copper. 

[00:26:39] Loren: Especially during pregnancy. Yes. I get so many questions from women with MTHFR as well. 

[00:26:43] Morley: Absolutely. Acetylation, which is the flip side of methylation. Acetylation doesn't work without copper. Oh, that's a good thing to know. Why is Acetylation important? Because it allows his stones to unfurl, so his stone metabolism is totally copper dependent. Then we find out, oh wow, this transcription thing that people talk about, you can't transcribe without copper, so there must be a transcriptase enzyme that's copper dependent.

Does Ben talk about this? Does the gene gearheads talk about this? No. No, no, no, no. Are there gene repair enzymes that require copper? Absolutely. And so it's just, there's a whole ‘nother world. The knowledge about copper has been blown up into a thousand parks, and there's very few people that have taken the time to try to assemble them back.

And I'm not, I wouldn't say that I'm one of them. I've tried my best to get some sense of holistic view of it, but it's like none of this is taught in doctor school. None of this is taught in midwife school, and that should give people pause, that there's a whole ‘nother paradigm of metabolic understanding than what their doctor has been raised or their midwife has been raised on.

And it's just like we have a very different view of the world now after two years, and we know there's more to the story. This conversation is the other side of the story that no one knows about. And so this information, this truth, this natural metabolic truth, is instrumental for a healthy pregnancy and a healthy delivery and a healthy start for that child.

[00:28:19] Loren: Absolutely, yes. I think it's really important to look at the bigger picture when it comes to issues like pregnancy anemia, for sure. And your blood volume is increasing by 50%. That means you're gonna need a lot more copper and retinol as well to support that. And there are so many really important functions when it comes to the healthy growth and development of a baby that require so much nutrition itself, but also these really important ones too.

So just something to keep in mind. 

[00:28:53] Morley: An adult has what, six liters of blood, right? Is that about right? 

[00:28:59] Loren: That sounds right. I can't quite remember, but I'll take that. 

[00:29:03] Morley: So let's say it goes up 50%, so we're up to nine liters, right? What's the blood volume of the fetus? I have no idea. And I don't know. Is it a leader?

It would be good to know that. Yeah. How much of that 50% increase is for the baby? And the statistics that I've learned recently is that a third of the baby's blood volume is meant to come from the placenta. After the baby's born, there's a second birth, that's the placenta. And it takes up to an hour for the placenta to naturally download its blood.

And there's a lot of iron there, of course, but download its blood into the baby. And what happens in the hospital type within a minute of the delivery. Why? Because they want those stem cells. That's really what they want. They're trying to sell those, make a little extra cash that those are the baby's stem cells.

I think that's just so wrong. But if a third of the baby's volume is in the placenta, I think it'd be a good statistic to know how much blood the baby is supposed to have, And if they're only getting two thirds of it. That's a significant issue, not just in terms of mineral status overall, but certainly iron and copper are gonna be compromised by that.

The other side of it is when there's early delivery, premature delivery, that's when it becomes really serious. Because again, the copper download is in the last trimester, the last 12 weeks. Well, when do miscarriages used to take place, before those last 12 weeks. So what does that imply about the baby?

They don't get the copper download. Why don't they get the copper download? Because the baby actually initiates the birth. It's not the mother, it's the baby. And the baby realizes I'm not getting any copper. I gotta get outta here. And what's the biggest challenge they face? Lung development. What's really important?

What do the lungs do? Oh yeah, they deal with that oxygen thing all the time. So what are they not having in their lungs? Copper. The alveolar macrophages, they don't have a new copper. And so what's a problem with preemies? Pneumonia. Well, what's pneumonia? It's a clinical sign of copper deficiency. It's like, oh my gosh.

And what really initiates the premature birth to build up serotonin? Why is serotonin rising? Because oxidative stress is rising. And why is the oxidative stress rising? Because the copper dependent antioxidants aren't working cuz there's not enough copper. And the other role that copper plays is to turn serotonin off.

There's an active and inactive state and it needs to do its job and then be turned off. Well, if it doesn't get turned off, it's just going to fester inside the womb and that's going to agitate and create a premature birth. Again, it's not, I mean, and they'll say, Oh, was it the lack of progesterone? Yeah.

Why is progesterone rising? Or why is it seeking to rise? Because it causes rising oxidative stress. And what does it take to synthesize progesterone? And what does it take to secrete progesterone? Oh yeah, it's that copper thing again and again, practitioners don't know this. It's so central to our physiology, and yet it is this unknown that rules the planet.

The biology of life on this planet is totally copper dependent in a thousand different ways. Nobody knows that The challenge we face is getting people to wake up to this important reality. 

[00:32:33] Loren: Absolutely. You touched on this a little bit. I do wanna dig in a little bit deeper, but. I would love to talk a little bit more about pregnancy loss.

This is something that by default I get lots of questions about and am sort of exposed to a lot just as a practitioner in the fertility space, but I think there is an increasing trend with this from what I've seen just in my experience too. Is there anything that a woman who has experienced pregnancy loss or recurrent pregnancy loss especially, that she can do to support herself?

[00:33:12] Morley: Probably the most important thing to do is to do emotional freedom technique, to release the fear that you have, that you're broken or that you somehow did something to cause that loss. And it's a biological event. I'm not trying to be dispassionate or too clinical. I've experienced it. Between our third and fourth child, there was a miscarriage.

And it's very traumatic to go through that cuz you do think you did something wrong. It's a natural reaction. And what people need to understand is that when they are in an emotional state of fear, we spell it differently within the RCP, F-E hyphen A-R, so you see the symbol for iron. Fear attracts iron.

It's a biological fact of what's happening. When you're in a state of fear, you quickly go into the physiological state of hypoxia. Oh, now wait, we're back to Joseph Barcroft. We're up on the mountain hypoxia. You're thinking there's not enough oxygen. No, no, no. There's two types of hypoxia. There is alpine hypoxia, altitude, hypoxia, but then there's something inside the tissue called functional hypoxia.

One is a supply issue when you're at, you know, 19,000 feet. There just isn't as much oxygen up there when you're inside the womb. That's a challenge. There's a lack of oxygen, but there's also an inability to activate the oxygen that's there and turn it into water. That's really important. And that functional hypoxia is from a lack of copper.

And so the issue is knowing that if that's really what's behind, if this hypoxia, it's gonna create a lot of oxidative stress. Because what happens in that emotional state of fear is adrenaline and cortisol getting released and all these neurotransmitters, all of these hormones are all responding to the status of oxygen in our body.

And oxygen is not always O2. It exists in a half a dozen different forms, depending upon the enzyme activity that's trying to manage it. And if it's not being managed properly, there will be what are called oxidants, accidents with oxygen, they will trigger chemicals like adrenaline and cortisol to try to correct the oxidative stress.

And when that happens, adrenaline causes iron to rise and cortisol causes copper to drop. It's biology. It's absolute biology. And so what's important for women who've experienced a loss to know you've gotta release that fear so that you stop the fear from attracting iron, and there's a backside to the cycle.

Iron activates fear, and it's a metabolic pathway called N L R P three. It's also called the inflammasome. It's the nuclear origin of inflammation. And guess who starts it? Iron. So fear attracts iron. Iron activates fear. And the beauty of EFT or EMDR or TRE trauma releases it slices through that dynamic and allows you to release the energetic hold that that emotion of fear has.

And guess what, folks, We've been living that emotion for the last two years. We're still not out of the woods yet. So that's playing in their background of our psyche 24/7, wondering what's next? What other insane, you know, changes are they gonna make in our lives? You know, food is supposed to increase by 50% in May.

It's like, seriously, they did that to gas? They're gonna do it to food. What's next? And so we're being conditioned to live in this perpetual state of fear and it's having devastating effects on our biochemistry. So you gotta let go of the fear. I would encourage you to be polite with your birthing practitioner smile when they tell you what to do, and then when you leave the office, run the other way and do exactly the opposite of what they tell you to do.

Because the physiology of Mother Nature is dramatically different than the physiology of obstetrics’ textbooks. They have no idea what minerals are. They have no idea what oxidative stress really is. They have no idea what energy production is. And when you're developing a new life form, a new baby, you better be able to be adept at dealing with oxidative stress, adept at making energy, adept at dealing with the mineral demands of that growing child.

And you gotta have a good diet. I'd say that a good place to start would be Weston A Price, use their principles as sort of a foundation or a cornerstone and work out from there. What Dr. Price discovered back in the twenties with his wife, Isabelle, Dr. Price was a dentist. He did a root canal in his nine year old son.

What happened? He died and it shattered, Dr. Price and his wife that they wanted to find. What do people have perfect teeth in this world? And if so, what are they eating? That's what inspired that. What a talk about turning water into wine. And so these indigenous communities all had a regimen that they put young couples under to strengthen their physiology so they could produce healthy offspring.

We don't do that here. That's not done on this planet. Now, I don't know where those 14 indigenous communities are. I don't even know whether they still exist. You know, the Aborigines are much smaller than they were Native American Indians, much smaller. I don't even know if there are Swiss goat herds anymore.

There are obviously Eskimos, but not as many. Again, each of those communities that were studied are a fraction of what they were a hundred years ago, but they had a very precise diet for young couples. And that's so important. And I think it's also important to seek out people like Loren who really do know how to connect these dots and get the perspective of what's really going on in my body.

And understand that there is this absolute magical ability of the body to manage itself when it's fed the right nutrients, when it's supported with the right supplements. We've been conditioned to think that it's mysterious and it's complicated, and it's like, no, it's not. It's actually pretty simple.

And our ancestors, we don't have to go back too far. Great grandparents, they wouldn't even recognize what we eat. They'd just kinda shake their head and say, “Really, we're gonna have that?” And so when I was born, my mother's father, dad was 72 years old. I used to watch him eat. I was fascinated by his tomato sandwiches.

It was bread, mayonnaise, and tomato. Home grown, of course. And the most graphic image I have, or memory I have, when I was 20 years old, he was 92 and we were weeding the side of his hill and he's weeds like a machine. And I was tired. 92, I was 20 and I was struggling to keep up with him. Wow. You know, on the outside he and I look the same on the inside, I'm Swiss cheese compared to him because the minerals weren't there. People don't think about that. But if we don't have batteries running the enzymes, if we don't have batteries running the membrane channels and things like that, nothing happens. And when its batteries disappear because of stress. And the body starts to express symptoms, then we go see the doctor. Oh, I've got this symptom, I've got that symptom. And the doctor gets out there, Merck Manual and says, Oh, you've got the XYZ syndrome. And because we're human, we're really gullible. And we believe that when in fact most of those symptoms in the Merck Manual are missing this, there's 33,000 conditions in the Merck Manual.

There's no protagonist. They don't talk about the protagonist. And they don't talk about the protagonist in the obstetrician or the midwife's office either. 

[00:41:35] Loren: No. And you've mentioned before too, that there's something like 300 to 600,000 mitochondria in each mature egg. So just based on that, there's so much energy required to support our fertility to that egg is going to be fertilized, but that empty sack is also going to turn into the gland called the corpus luteum, which produces progesterone, and so the health of that egg sac is going to be super important and it requires tons of energy. I do love what you've said too, I think when it comes to pregnancy loss, just bringing that back, Right.

I do think the most important thing is just addressing the any emotional side of things that might or may not come up, but that can be such a hindrance because I do think that there's a lot to be said about manifestation and ourselves listening to what we say, and you kind of explained it from the scientific side, the iron attracting fear and fear attracting iron through those passages, but I think that we can sometimes get in our own way too, if we don't resolve certain things emotionally. Yeah. So I think that's a really great piece of advice. And definitely the first thing I would address too. 

[00:42:56] Morley: Emotional becomes physical and physical becomes emotional. Mm-hmm. It's so important to address the emotional traumas we've all gone through, especially with a loss, a maternal loss devastating.

Especially if you've had it several times, cuz if it's happened several times, then you're convinced there's something wrong with you. Or even darker, I'm being punished for something I did wrong. Those are absolutely understandable reactions, but they need to be released. Mm-hmm. and Gary Craig was the founder of Emotional Freedom Technique.

His reflection was, if someone's life can be changed in a car accident and they are. Never the same. He thought there's gotta be a way to reverse that in the exact same speed. That was the philosophical basis of EMT. And then to comment on the, uh, issue of the egg. There's a wonderful, I guess you'd call it a documentary.

It's a five part documentary called Ghosts in Your Genes, and it will mesmerize you about how important your grandmother's diet was when she was an adolescent to influence the health of your eggs. Mm-hmm. It's like, what, what did he just say? And the a hundred thousand to 600,000 mitochondria per egg, well, I would guess that they're supposed to be 600,000. And what we're finding in the modern era is women with eggs that have as few as a hundred thousand. Well, you've never heard these numbers before. You're like, Well, where did, where did he make that up? I read it in an obstetrical journal, but nobody talks about it.

As Loren so aptly pointed out, it takes a lot of energy to support 600,000 mitochondria. Well, you gotta have a lot of copper to support 600,000 mitochondria, and I don't think women have that and they don't have it to support the corpus luteum. Again, I think what would be fascinating for you to research, Loren, is put in the search engine, and again, you always put quotations around this, so corpus luteum in quotes and copper deprivation in quotes.

I think you'll be surprised at what you find. 

[00:45:09] Loren: I will do that when we're done here. That would be probably fascinating. 

[00:45:14] Morley: I do need to, I've said, is that this whole process of copper loss on the planet has been going on for about a century now. We've had an 80% loss of copper on the farm, 80%, and we've gone through what I call three phases of copper loss.

After the first World War, it was copper deficiency. That took us for about 30, 35 years. Then we entered a phase of copper depletion in the fifties and the early sixties. That's when they started adding sugars and crazy things like that. And then we entered into a new era in the 1990s, copper deprivation.

And when an animal, especially a human animal, and we are all animals, but when we are deprived of copper, our genes change. They change function. And people are all familiar with E equals mc square E equals mass times the speed of light. Well, actually it's energy equals structure times function. And when you don't have energy, if you don't have 600,000 mitochondria, you're down to 100,000.

You don't have as many of these working in your favor. And when the energy drops, the structure and function of the tissue changes like the corpus luteum, like the placenta, like many different aspects of the pregnant woman's anatomy. And I think that's really the origin, a lot of the changes that take place.

It's an energetic change which changes the structure and function of the tissue. 

[00:46:52] Loren: Going back to pregnancy, anemia and just connecting the iron fortification that you just mentioned. Right. The reason we started iron fortification was because we were looking at the iron levels of pregnant women, which were naturally lower

So isn't that ironic? 

[00:47:13] Morley: It's comical because at any given point in society, 1% of the people in society are. So they put the spotlight on pregnant women who, as you say, have less iron. It appears like they have less iron because of where they are in the pregnancy, right? No dilution. And what did they decide to do?

They inoculate the other 99% for the fact that the 1% were going through hemodilution. It's like when you piece together the actual events were like, No. Let me give you another example. One that's just as insane, in the nineties. In the nineties, they introduced what's called RBST milk. Bovine growth hormone milk, right?

Mm-hmm. And you say, Okay, well there's like 18 million cows here in the States. So clearly it's gonna be a really robust study, and they're gonna study thousands or tens of thousands, maybe they'll study a million cows to see how they respond to RBST as a stimulus, right? You think that right? Do you know what the research was based on?

[00:48:13] Loren: Probably some really, really small number or not at all. 

[00:48:18] Morley: An undergraduate student in Canada. One student studied three cows, one died, one didn't respond, and the other one did. And in that study, all the cattle in North America, you know, people are like, No, that's not… Well now that we've had two years of absolute insanity, hopefully that makes more sense to you now.

That's the kind of logic, that's the kind of rigor that has been driving decision making in this world of ours that we didn't even know about. 

[00:48:53] Loren: Very selective rigor. 

[00:48:56] Morley: Very selective rigor. Exactly. 

[00:48:59] Loren: Um, so I think this would be a great segue to go into, Other potential pregnancy complications that I also kind of just get asked about by default very often.

And so some of these include things like preeclampsia, gestational diabetes, colon stasis, et cetera. You know, you could name any kind of thing. And really it's gestational diabetes. Preeclampsia are really common. At least the depression I'm sure is big. That too. Yes. I can guess what you're gonna say, but what do you think drives these conditions?

And is there anything that women can do to avoid them or support themselves if she's currently dealing with this? 

[00:49:46] Morley: I think young women today, no offense, don't have the mineral status that they should have to be producing babies. I don't think they realize how compromised their body is compared to their great-grandmother.

And again, there's a whole story with your great-grandmother. She wasn't eating the right kind of food. She had children. Those children had children and so on. And minerals need to be replaced with each generation, but each day of each generation, right? And there's a very recognized depletion of minerals in the soil that's affected the plants and animals that we eat.

That's a fact. That's a biological scientific fact that the mineral content, the nutrient content, is not what the nutrient table says. It's what the analytics say when they actually look at the food, like at Rutgers and schools that really worry about these types of things. And so there's a complete difference in the food we eat.

So women are starting out a leg down, and I don't think women and men, I think young couples do not know what to eat. That's the question I get asked the most. Dr. Liz, the question all the time, What should I eat and what's hidden behind that question? I'm afraid I don't know what to eat. It's a fear factor that fears playing 24/7.

I'm afraid I don't know what to eat. I know what I like to eat. I don't think it's good for me, but I think the nourishing foods aren't there. And nourishing foods are more difficult to buy cuz you gotta grow a farmer's market or you gotta grow it yourself or you gotta walk the perimeter of the supermarket.

Don't go anywhere near the inside of the supermarket. If there's a box or can, or frozen or a window, that's not real food. You don't buy foods like that, you don't eat them. And the real foods are more complicated to cook. People don't have time. Last thing you should be using is a microwave. And that's the cornerstone of every kitchen.

And well, my mother used it, and so it's gotta be safe. No, it doesn't. It's not safe at all. It denatures the food. You're like, Oh man, this guy's a pain. He says like, There's nothing I'm doing right. But that's really where it starts. I think the mineral status of young people is completely deficient. Again, I've done 7,000 consults.

I've seen it. It takes your breath away. The food is completely depleted. That's fact. And I think we have birthing practitioners who have been trained the exact opposite of what the body requires. And, and the world of obstetrics, just like all the different modalities of medicine, is all based on hormones.

Well, hormones don't run the body. They respond to oxygen status and they respond to mineral status to respond to the oxygen status. And if the minerals aren't there, then the hormones are trying to kick in. But everyone forgets that to make a hormone, you gotta have an enzyme to make an enzyme work. Guess what?

Battery. Ding, ding, ding. And so, Oh, are you saying that hormone dysregulation is a mineral issue? Yes, it is. And so people aren't aware of that. And the information that's on the internet, it's insane what's out there. I mean, you don't want to rely on I hope that's not an existing website.

It's just like the contemporary website that's talking about birthing practices is something you gotta really scrutinize. Had an opportunity to spend a day with a marketing consultant for alternative health. Name is Michael Greenberg. Brilliant, brilliant guy. And he's always asked, Hey Michael, what's new?

And he said, Morley, what I've learned to ask is what's enduring. And that's really what got me back to the beginning of oxygen on the planet, which would be the beginning of oxygen in your womb. It's a very different world out there, And so what we need to be doing is asking, what did my great-grandmother do?

What did my great-great-grandmother do? They were having births at home. It wasn't even another option. And probably most often they didn't even have a practitioner there. I would be willing to bet, certainly before that time, and this idea that giving birth is a disease and we need specialists. Come on.

When you get into the physiology of pregnancy, the physiology of fetal development and the physiology of delivery, it's beautiful to study. It really is biology and the biology is based on energy and minerals and the body being able to communicate with itself and so you gotta step back. From the situation and say, “What has changed?”

Am I really prepared for this change that I'm about to go through? And there needs to be a level of curiosity to say, what don't I know and what doesn't? My birthing practitioner knows this idea that they know all I think is very risky at best. And I think people need to be more assertive. I think people need to ask better questions and I think people need to demand better answers.

Don't settle for well, “That's just the way we do it”. Like we always give iron to improve the bleeding. Be very sincere and say, “Could you show me the research that proves that?” That's correct. Cause I can show you research that's just the opposite. I'll go to Dale's library and wear them out and there's no research that I found that justifies iron infusions within a month of the delivery.

I've had two clients who got iron infusions a week before they delivered. Both women almost died and both babies almost died. There's nothing natural about it. It's becoming normal, which is appalling on this planet. And what is iron? It's the most prevalent element on planet Earth, number one element. And up until March of 2020, I would've argued that humans were the most evolved species.

Now I've had my doubts, but what that implies is if you have anemia, it means that the life form with the highest intelligence can't metabolize the number one element on the planet. And that does not pass the sniff test. And what it tells us is there's more to the story. And I'm here to tell you that every facet of iron metabolism requires copper.

100% of it. And when did they first know that copper was essential to make hemoglobin? 1932, back to the University of Wisconsin in Madison, Dr. Lvm and Sherman proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that copper was essential to make hemoglobin. Nobody knows about that research. Do you realize if you go back more than seven years, you can't trust the literature?

What? I rely on research from the 1910s, twenties, thirties, and forties. Why? Because back then they wanted to see what they could do to enhance the vitality of humans. And what happened in the eighties? The program flipped. Mm-hmm. So it's just a different world. We just have to be mindful of that. We have to be really careful about what's the source of information we're using and is there science to back up that person's position?

How many articles have I sent you, Loren? 

[00:57:11] Loren: So many. I can't count. Something like that.

[00:57:11] Morley: It's about 75 that I sent to Loren. So if you're looking for articles that the library of Loren is right there. And what I love about Lauren is she actually reads them. There are three people that I regularly hear from say, That was an amazing article, or she goes one step beyond that.

She tells me what she thought was the most important part about the article. This woman reads that stuff. She knows this stuff and she is a step down transformer trying to help people really understand this. I just came across a great quote by Einstein. Anyone can know the object is to understand, and Loren understands this.

It's so important to take the time to step away from the mainstream narrative and say, Is there more to this story? That's what Lauren is seeking to do, and that's what I’m totally devoted to, is helping people become more aware and less dogmatic about what they know and just be open to new information.

[00:58:13] Loren: Thank you so much more, Morley, that it's a really big compliment coming from you, but I'm always very appreciative of all the articles that you send me. It's always fun to have a conversation like that with you. 

[00:58:24] Morley: Well, yeah, and Loren, there's so few people who actually take the time to really read this again. Everybody's got, I got so much on my plate. I'm really busy. Well, do you think there's a reason why I'm sending you this article? 

[00:58:38] Loren: Yeah, you've definitely provoked a lot of thought with your answer. I think that there's a couple things that I wanna pull out. So I think that. Everyone's kind of somewhat aware that we're up against a lot.

Our stress levels were not as nutrient replete as our ancestors’ were. We've lost the traditions of our ancestors in terms of preconception planning and sort of traditions as it goes to or relates to nutrition for preconception. That's a specialized food ritual kind of thing that our ancestors used to practice prior to conception.

We are also being inundated with other forms of stress and our food system is getting depleted by the year. So there's a couple of things that we're up against. I think one, planning or taking the time to source your food properly, replenish those minerals, make a concerted effort to replenish nutrients, is definitely something that you probably wanna do, especially if you're thinking about entering into conception. Cuz a lot of those issues that I mentioned earlier and that we talked about, like preeclampsia and gestational diabetes, they're not just random, they kind of happen. I mean, pregnancy can be a black box, don't get me wrong.

It's a stress test for our system for sure. And that's why it's such a black box. Weaknesses, weak links that we didn't know we had might become very obvious. And so that's not to say it's anyone's fault per se, but trying to address the sort of areas where we think we need the most help prior can help a lot is kind of what I gathered.

And then the other aspect is really try to shy away from, or avoid outsourcing your health. No one cares more about your body than you do your health, than you do your baby, than you do. And so taking the time to understand what is actually happening and asking hard questions, probing things that you might not be comfortable with, seeing new providers, if one's not working out, you can fire them and truly becoming your own expert on your own body is going to be really important to being empowered, to make empowered decisions. Because the more you know your body, the more you're gonna be able to say, Yes, I need that. No, I don't need that. So those are kind of the couple things – 

[01:01:18] Morley: Very important. And I think just to amplify the preeclampsia, let's pull the curtain back.

You see the symbol for copper and preeclampsia? It's a spectrum disorder, but preeclampsia can become eclampsia. Well, eclampsia is very serious. Mm-hmm. What's happening is the level of oxidative stress is rising inside the womb. Why is the oxidative stress rising?

Usually it's for two reasons. Women have too much iron in the tissue. It's not showing in the blood. Ding, ding, ding. And they don't have enough copper. Again, antioxidant enzymes require copper. It's a whole bunch of them, a handful of them that are really important. And there are three, Remember we talked about the placenta, ceruloplasmin, zyklopen.

If they're not working and they all require a copper battery, every one of 'em requires a copper battery. They don't have that copper battery. They cannot do their job. And then the oxidative stress builds and then that starts to affect. A blood pressure and then that starts to affect blood sugar regulation.

And again, gestational diabetes, it's not that complicated, folks. Blood sugar regulation, the pancreas is being overwhelmed by iron. Ding, ding, ding. If the liver is being overwhelmed by iron, ding, ding, ding. And where's all this iron coming from? Oh yeah. Those prenatal supplements that someone told you to take with knowing what I know, and I'm sure Loren feels the same way, but I'll just speak for myself.

I would never recommend a prenatal. That was gonna be my next question. Morley , What about I need that full weight while you're getting folic acid in the prenatal? That's a good thing to know. It's not the same thing as folate. And I have a theory about the B vitamins. I think that they all require a copper battery to work.

That all of those B vitamins regulate iron. When you get into a B vitamin metabolism, you're gonna very quickly find out that just about every B vitamin has some involvement with iron activity. And so I posed this question years ago to Leslie Cleve, who's a world renowned copper expert. He's an MD PhD.

Guess where he got trained? University of Wisconsin and Madison. So he knows these studies very intimately and he's now retired. Really, a very special guy. He's just so brilliant. And I said, Dr. Cleve, I have this theory. And he said, Well, Marley, he said, I can't speak for all the B vitamins. He said, Well, what I can say for a fact is that B9, folate, is copper dependent.

Whoa, who's talking about that folks? And so when you get into neural tube defects and you start worrying about, am I getting the folate? What you really need to be worrying about is am I getting the copper and are my sources of folate from Mother Nature, or are they from a bottle? And if they're from a bottle, I'd run the other way.

I'd give the bottle to the neighbor that you like the least. To be honest. So again, we're back to the basics. Make sure that you've got food based wherever possible, and make sure that you know that it's bioavailable. Well, the food based forms raised on an organic farm where there's no noxious chemicals naturally will have, and again, the farmer needs to know to feed the soil minerals. In Europe, they sprinkle rock dust all the time, not so much. Here we use N P K, there's a difference between rock dust and NPK. There's a difference between rock dust and glyphosate. And so we've gotta wake up to the reality of the soil that we're growing our food in, and when the food has the minerals, plants will have the minerals and the animals will get the minerals, and that's how basic it gets. And so folate is a very important part of the birthing process on many different levels, but it depends on copper. And very few people know that. And I am very confident that Dr. Klevay learned that in medical school at the University of Wisconsin, but not every medical school is that aware of these principles.

It's just a different level of understanding that practitioners aren't being trained in these fundamentals. And that's why health educators and coaches like Loren are so important because they're bringing a whole dimension of understanding that's being lost to conventional education. 

[01:06:03] Loren: Thank you for that, Morley.

That was very insightful and I know that everyone asks about prenatals too, so you beat me to the punch. 

[01:06:11] Morley: I felt the vibe. I knew it was coming. 

[01:06:15] Loren: Yeah. So I have two more questions. One of them is about breastfeeding. So I get a lot of questions, women reaching out to me on social media about maybe their supply is not as sufficient as they'd like it to be, or they've chosen not to breastfeed and they're asking what the best formula is.

And so I would love to know kind of your thoughts on sort of formula itself or how a woman who maybe wants to breastfeed can support their milk production, that kind of stuff. 

[01:06:53] Morley: Again, we're back to the diet. What's the bulk of the breast milk retinol? Vitamin A. It's a, mm-hmm. I've forgotten what the percent is, but macrophages in the breast milk are off the chart.

[01:07:06] Loren: Something like 80%. I think just to interject here too, I think a lot of women are scared of retinol in pregnancy because it causes birth defects, quote unquote. I mean, there's definitely a difference between synthetic and food based retinol there, I will say. But the need for retinol increases by 60% if you're breastfeeding.

So you need, Oh, I believe that, a ton more retinol vitamin A if you're planning on breastfeeding. So these are not small numbers. This is not like 6%, it's 60%. I just wanted to say that. 

[01:07:46] Morley: No, it's a very important point. And there's a difference between retinol and retinyl palmitate. The retinyl palmitate. It's a naturally occurring element, but they're putting into prenatals and other supplements.

That's a synthetic form. Well, synthetics don't work the same way. The chemistry may be identical. The biology is completely different. And that's what people need to really embrace is that wow, they can make it look exactly the same, but it doesn't act the same way and it doesn't, it doesn't have the same energy.

And so there's a lot of confusion about this of course. And so we're supposed to believe that we're copper toxic and retinol and vitamin A toxic. We need to remember, we're two years into this global insanity and everything's getting reversed. We gotta run the other way, folks. And the retinol is so important for breast milk.

I remember when my former wife was breastfeeding our kids. When her production was down, she would always have a beer. And again, when you go back in the day, how was beer made? In copper vats. Now their glass line, they still have the copper, but they're glass line because we don't want the beer to touch the copper.

It's like, that was the whole point to get. 

[01:09:05] Loren: There are some breweries I know of not here, but on the East coast that use copper bats, which is pretty cool when you walk in, 

[01:09:13] Morley: I bed they’re glass lined, Loren. 

[01:09:17] Loren: Oh, there we go.

[01:09:17] Morley: So you gotta be careful about that. But there may be some that are still out there.

But again, the yeast, What do yeast love? Yeast love copper. They go crazy about copper and what don't we have in our diet? Fermented foods. But what does beer, It's a fermented food is what it is. But again, I'm not encouraging people to go out and get drunk. But, everybody's benefits that you would derive from that.

And as it relates to formulas, you gotta be really, really careful. There's a, and I wish I knew the website or the link off hand. I'll try to get it from Dr. Liz cuz I'm sure she knows where it is, but it's based on goat milk. Mm-hmm. Protein of goat milk, as you probably know, is as close to human milk as you can get.

And there's an actual recipe online for making infant formula based on goat milk. And if you can get it unprocessed, that's even better because what does the pasteurizing process do to the 50 enzymes in milk? Kills them all. Guess what? It also kills. Oh, it kills the retinol. The very point of why we're drinking this luscious liquid.

And so don't confuse the white liquid in the store. Real milk coming from the cow. They're very, very different. So I'll do my best to get you that link cuz I think it would be important for your followers to be aware of it. But when you look at conventional infant formula, your jaw is gonna drop and you see how much iron is in there, how much vitamin D is in there, how little A is in there.

There's no mention of copper. B vitamins are all synthetic. All synthetic. Where do they come from? Cold tar derivative. That's a fact. Look that up. And then the coup d'etat is to get the Nestle water for the formula. That's fluoridated. It's like, no, that's not what you want. You do not want fluoride in the water to make the infant formula.

So kind of really step back from the mainstream narrative on that and be thinking more like your great-grandmother. 

[01:11:29] Loren: Yeah, I love that advice. So I guess for women struggling with milk production, diet is super important. Make sure you're getting retinol. Make sure you're getting fermented foods that have copper.

Well, they're not gonna naturally contain copper, but also support breast milk production. I believe there are a lot of fermented foods that are called galactagogue, quote unquote, that help stimulate breast milk production. So I would guess that, and that is true, any list of galactagogues will have some fermented foods on there.

And then women that maybe have chosen not to or need to supplement somehow to look for a goat milk based homemade formula raw, if you can, And I'll post, if Morley finds that link to the recipe, I'll post it in the links as well as a real milk finder, a link to a directory where you could find raw milk as well.

Cuz I think that's also super important.

[01:12:22] Morley: The other side of it is that a lot of women struggle with postpartum depression. Mm-hmm. And that is not a behavioral disorder. It's a biological disorder. Again, women, as I've said, I question their mineral capacity, especially around copper. Because we live in a very copper deprived society.

And depression is not an emotional state. It's a metabolic state. Why's not making enough energy? Why is it not making enough energy? Cuz you donated all that copper to the baby. And again, the myth is babies are perfect. No babies will take what they can get and they'll rob the mother blind if they can do it.

And so the mom takes it on the chin. Again, the book acts of stress on the planet. Guys in foxholes worrying about death. Moms in birthing suites, worrying about life. Those are the people, the stressors on the planet. Hands down, what's second only to those? Insomnia. You're gonna deal with that when you're recovering from your delivery.

But the important thing is the depression. It's a biological lack of copper. You're not able to make enough energy and that creates a depressed state of energy production. And so how is it possible to make breast milk if you feel metabolically depressed? So you gotta stay on top of that, and that is as important.

And again, what's the great stressful reliever? Magnesium. Anything that's supposed to be in motion requires magnesium. So I think it's Mark Sircus, a wonderful practitioner who helps people with a lot of their mineral issues. And he focuses on magnesium, I think there's an article he has where he recommends magnesium baths like every night in the third trimester.

That sounds lovely. Yeah, calms everybody down, Mom and the baby, and especially using either magnesium sulfate, epsom salts, or magnesium chloride oil. So it's just a very easy way to nourish body and soul during that process. 

[01:14:35] Loren: Yeah, that's a great suggestion. For sure. I completely agree with you regarding postpartum depression.

I think that there can be other aspects too. If the delivery was traumatic or if something happened. But nutrition does play a huge role, and there is actually really adequate research connecting deficiencies to the development and I guess occurrence of postpartum depression as well. So, and if you're breastfeeding as well, I just wanna note that your nutrient intake will be even higher, or your nutrient requirements will be even higher than in pregnancy.

So if we're starting out nutrient deficient going into pregnancy and then trying to breastfeed postpartum, there's gonna be potentially a lot of nutrients that we are depleted in. So we really need to focus on our new nutrition and making sure that we're replenishing as much as possible. 

[01:15:26] Morley: I think the other side of it is, I don't know what percent it is, but a significant percent of women plan for home birth or natural birth.

And they end up with C-sections. And that's a very traumatic event. When you think you're gonna be going to England and you end up in Biafra, you're like, “What the heck happened?” And so that's not to speak poorly of anyone, it's just it happens. And I think the shock of that has a mineral effect. Again, it's a stressor to think you're gonna have a home birth and suddenly you find yourself in a birthing center where.

Gonna do a C-section. That is an absolute shift in your world, and I think people get traumatized by it, to be honest. 

[01:16:14] Loren: That's so true. Everything is connected. The stress, the minerals, all of it. And that's a great point. One more question for you morally, and then I'll let you go. I wanna shift to menopause actually.

I've noticed a lot of women going through menopause a lot earlier than ever before. It is kind of crazy, but some clients that I've worked with, just to give an example too, I think this woman was given the birth control pill before she even got her period naturally, and then she started going through menopause around 40.

And so I definitely think there's some connection there and potentially what we do earlier on for sure. But I'd love to hear from you what you think about that sort of trend and, I guess a two part question. What are your thoughts on the hormonal therapies that they typically recommend? Because these are often prescribed to women to help them deal with undesirable symptoms, but I'm wondering if these have any implications as well

[01:17:17] Morley:  There's two reasons why women outlive men. Women are smarter. That's a biological fact. Second, women have a monthly blood loss and you're losing iron every month, like clockwork. And there's all sorts of menstrual issues that could be a whole conversation. And it's like how I got in the middle of all these women's issues, I don't know, but I'm ornery enough to learn this stuff to help the next generation.

Cause I think it's abysmal what's happening to women on the planet. And the monthly blood loss is a very sacred event. It just is. And I know, yeah, he's a guy. What does he know? Well, but it really is, I've had women who literally set up an altar to celebrate their menstrual cycle. Cause that's really what it is. And probably the most graphic example of what you're talking about was I was talking to a woman who was in her forties who had had her third child when she was 28 years old, and the doctor decided to do her a favor.

And he gave her a hysterectomy after her third child without her permission, but never told her. But she was in her mid forties. She had 20 years of iron building up in her body, in a body that's designed to release iron. Again, women absorb more iron, but they release it. That's the yin yang of the woman is that she's taking it in, but letting it go, taking it in, letting it go, and that's what her biology is based on.

This woman was a hot mess because the doctor, against her best wishes, took out her plumbing. Complete plumbing, which was an absolute assault to her body, and she was riddled with symptoms. Guess what? They were all related to lack of copper, excess iron. That's not complicated. What's the whole basis of aging?

Why do I look older than Loren? Because I have more iron than she does, and that's a fact. A really good rule of thumb, take your age and multiply it times 365. So I don't have 5,000 milligrams of iron. I have 25,000 and it's in my tissue. That's what causes people to look old and act old because iron is building up.

That's a whole nother conversation. But the important thing is menopause is really supposed to happen in a woman, supposed to happen in their fifties. Preferably in their late fifties. And what's fascinating is that in Japan, there is no Japanese word for hot flash. Why? Because they have a lot of minerals in their diet and they don't have this crisis in their society.

And why do we have this crisis in our society? Because doctors don't know about minerals. I tease them and say that their degree stands for mineral denialist, and they just don't understand mineral metabolism. And the blood loss needs to sustain itself really for a good 40 to 45 years. That's what other nature designed women to do.

And when it doesn't happen, then you know there's a mineral dynamic behind it. The whole basis of the root cause protocol is that stress causes mineral dysregulation, and that mineral dysregulation causes metabolic dysfunction. That metabolic dysfunction causes symptoms. We live in a society that focuses on symptoms and wants to ignore the metabolism behind it.

And what we're trying to do with the root cause protocol is increase copper, lower iron, and bingo bongo. The body can make more energy and it's able to run itself. And so, when women go into menopause is very, very important. One of the first questions I always ask, are you still cycling? One of the funniest answers I got back was, “No, I don't ride a bike anymore”.

But the thing is, women are supposed to have a 28 day cycle. When is it supposed to start? With the full moon? Why? Cuz that's when parasites lay their eggs with the full moon. Why does mother nature want you menstruating at the full moon to make it more challenging? Almost impossible for the parasites to take hold.

That's real important to know. Why is it 28 days? Because that's the clock. Now, put on your thinking cap. Loren. Can you guess who's running all the clocks in the human body? All the clocks run on comfort, , all of the clocks. And so if a woman has a 26 day cycle, 32 day cycle, 38 day cycle, 14 day cycle, I know that copper and iron are completely fubar in their body.

And it should be about a five day blood loss. It shouldn't be three days, it shouldn't be 10 days. As soon as the cycle is out of kilter, I know minerals are involved. And so what's happened unfortunately is women have been trained to hate their menstrual cycle and so they can't wait to have it end. That is an assault on femininity and what it means to be a woman, and women have gotta reclaim their power around this, and it should be a source of wonderment and majesty as it relates to have the menstrual cycle and as it relates to the hormone replacement therapy, The term bioidentical hormones.

Sorry to disappoint you, but that's a marketing term for synthetic. It's not as bioidentical as it sounds. Biodentical sounds natural, doesn't it? It's. The bloom is off the rose. Just go into the research and look up hormone replacement therapy, oxidative stress, hormone replacement therapy, premature death. I mean, you're gonna be shocked at what you find and again, what you need to understand, why are the hormones misbehaving?

Because oxygen's misbehaving. And why aren't the enzymes able to respond to the misbehaving oxygen? Cuz they're missing minerals. And I think it's really disheartening that these really intelligent people who we call doctors, brilliant people, very caring, good solid caring people, well endowed with IQ, have been reduced to monkeys because they don't think, “Why are all the patients in my practice dealing with the same problem?”

Could it be an environmental issue? Could it be an issue with the food system? Could it be that, “Oh yeah, they've been adding iron filings to the food system since 1941 and they increased it 50% in 1969”. Could it be that N P K locks copper uptake? Could it be that glyphosate is a copper key later, a proven copper key later down to a pH of one?

Could it be that sugar is a copper key later? Could it be that sugar has a preference for iron and not copper? And these are just simple basics. We haven't even gotten into the vitamins, retinol, and vitamin D. There are a lot of things we could talk about, but the very basis of our environment has changed dramatically and women should not be needing this synthetic support.

Again. Society has been trained to deal with symptoms not correct the underlying physiology. And what's missing in the underlying physiology is a lack of understanding how energy is made and how exhaust is cleared. That's the whole basis of the RCP. How the body, how the organ, how the tissue, how the cells work naturally to make energy, to create energy and clear exhaust. And the need for hormones changes as we age. But why? Why? Because the minerals are changing. There's an absolute biological loss of magnesium and copper as we age. And there's an absolute biological increase of calcium and iron as we age. And those four minerals are connected to each other.

The other thing that I learned the other day, Loren, is that vitamin A becomes deficient as we age. Why? Because it gets stuck in the liver cuz it can't get out of the stellate cell cuz the minerals aren't there to activate the enzyme to get it back into the system. Liver gets rusty. When copper goes down, iron rises in the body.

Where does it rise first in the liver? That affects vitamin A metabolism. Fascinating. Yeah, and so it's just these fundamentals. People know that vitamin A is important for eye health, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, that's good. If we were to talk about retinol metabolism, which we could do for probably three or four days, people would be running down the street like their hairs on fire.

Why don't they tell us this? What I think is the most amazing thing is when you get inside the mitochondria, there's a four part mechanism between complex three and complex four. That's where the magic is in the mitochondria, and there's a little four part mechanism called the signalosome, and you got protein kinase C.

You have something called protein kinase C. I can't remember the base, but the top of it is retinol. and it turns out that the electron in complex three has to run through retinol to get to complex four. Cycle C is at the base and retinol at the top folks. That's a big deal. We're not talking about retinol acid.

We're not talking about all trans, We're not talking about retinyl palmitate, we're talking about retinol. The actual alcohol component allows electricity to run through it, and that's what allows our mitochondria to work well and when retinol is missing, it creates something called the Warburg effect.

Loren knows what that is. I'll let her explain that to you in another conversation, but it's a big deal because it means you can't deal with oxygen. Then again, there's aspects to this approach with very basic principles, but they have the cascade of influence that occurs in the body and this is not understood or really embraced by conventional practitioners.

I think over time it will. I think society is slowly waking up to that. Wait a minute, there's something more going on here. I've gotta learn that. And that was the real beauty of the last two years. It was like electric shock therapy. Like, wait a minute, what's going on here? And I think more and more people are embracing this more natural approach to allowing the body to do what it does best, which is create energy and clear exhaust, but you gotta have the right nutrients and the right diet and the right supplements to allow that to happen.

[01:28:21] Loren: Mm-hmm. That's well said. Amazing. Well thank you so much, Morley, for all of your time and sharing your wisdom. I really, really appreciate it and I'm sure all the listeners do as well. I would love to know where can people find you and how can they support you? 

[01:28:40] Morley: So where can they find me? The Facebook group, there's a group and there's a page.

Facebook group is a magnesium advocacy group. Page is the Root Cross protocol page website, R-C-P-1-2-3 dot O-R-G. How can people find me? Also, I've got a book for those who wanna take a stroll through a different world. Cure your fatigue. There's a reason why the CU is, you know, boxed up cuz that's the symbol for confidence and you can get that in physical ebook and now audio.

What I would encourage you to do, and this is just based on personal experience, I've never listened to an audiobook until this came along. I encourage you to read it and listen to it at the same time. I learned stuff in there, I'd completely forgotten. Even though I'd read it. I was critical in writing it.

Read it four times, narrated it, and then the guy who runs the audiobook said, I would encourage you to read this. All you listen to it. I'm like, All right. Oh my gosh. I couldn't believe it. So hearing the book would be wonderful. Out of a commitment to humanity, I've created a product called Recuperate, get it, you know, let's recoup, recoup our bodies and people can join the RCP community. It's like $9.97 a month. If you want to engage in these conversations. Every other week we have Q and As and we have targeted discussion. And then if you want to get the training, there's an RCP Institute that's a more robust commitment.

It's 16 weeks, several thousand dollars, but you're gonna do the big download for a variety of reasons. One, just so you know what's going on. But you would be in a position to help advise other people. And we've got a lot of practitioners now beginning to wake up to the need for this training. So those are probably the principal ways for folks who wanna reach out personally, I'm very happy to give out my email and phone number. It's morley robbins, and my phone is (847) 922-8061. 

[01:30:48] Loren: That's amazing. Thank you so much, Morley. There's so many resources that you can check out of Morley's, like the institute, like the Facebook community, and the book is excellent.

I have it. I've gone through the training, so definitely love it all and your mind will be blown, especially if you think this was mind blowing. Thanks again, Morley. I have one more question. I would love to know, if you could provide one piece of advice that our listeners can take action on today, what would that be?

[01:31:20] Morley: Learn to become comfortable, challenging the status quo. Be willing to, uh, scratch the record and ask, Well, is there more to the story? Is there something that I don't know? The cornerstone of the RCP was built on, uh, a very important phrase I learned from a friend of mine who's a pastor and he teaches a course in logic for his parishioners, and the phrase is, missing information equals missing truth.

Another way to say it was expressed by Mark Twain. It's not what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for certain the test ain't so, and that's really what this book is. This book will explain to you what you don't know, what you've never known, what they don't want us to know.

And yeah, when do parachutes and minds work best when they're open? Right? And so I think it's important to keep an open mind, keep curious, and again, let's spell that right, c u hyphen R I O U S, and then allow that to guide you your questioning. So I hope that helps. 

[01:32:26] Loren: Thank you so much, Marley. I really appreciate it all.

I hope everyone loves this episode or actually this two part episode and go check out more of this stuff. 

[01:32:35] Morley: Yeah, and I bet what would be number three would be to answer all the questions that people have so we can do that. We'll plan that at some point in the future. 

[01:32:43] Loren: Yeah, do a Q and A style. That'd be fun.

[01:32:45] Morley: Okay. All right. All right. Thanks again. Thanks for the opportunity. 

[01:32:50] Loren: Thanks, Marley. Take care. Bye.