Innate Wisdom Podcast

Season 2 | Episode 6

Soul-Deep Nourishment & Reclaiming Your Femininity in a Modern World with Jessica Ash

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What It's About:

Join Loren Sofia, Functional Fertility Coach and owner of Innate Fertility, and Jessica Ash, a functional nutritionist, integrative health coach, and creator of Fully Nourished, as they discuss what it truly means to support your female physiology in today’s modern world.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

-The restrict, binge, shame and punish phases of restrictive diets
-The truth about calories in versus calories out
-Why trusting yourself is the real secret to healing
-Why you are burnt out & what it means
-The detrimental effect of obligation
-Learning how to actually align your choices with yourself
-The importance of boundaries while healing & in life
-The difference between female & male physiology
-How to support your unique feminine energy
-How to support your partner in his own masculine energy
-Pro-metabolic nutrition versus soul-deep nourishment


[00:00:00] Loren: Welcome to the Innate Wisdom Podcast. I'm your host, Lauren Sofia, Functional Fertility Coach and Owner of Innate Fertility, and I'm honored to guide you through each episode where we'll cover not just fertility, but how to rediscover the innate wisdom of your body, restore your connection with your physiology, bioenergetics and metabolism, and get back in touch with Mother Nature and ancestral traditions.

Welcome to another episode of the Innate Wisdom Podcast. On today's show, I'm incredibly excited to invite functional nutritionist, integrative health coach, and the creator of Fully Nourished, Jessica Ashe, to chat all about how to support your unique female physiology in today's modern world. Okay, so have you ever been burnt out?

Are you burnt out maybe right now? Let me tell you, I myself have experienced burnout multiple times in my lifetime. Complete [00:01:00] exhaustion, where you feel like your soul has been sucked out of you quite literally, so much so that it's even hard to make small decisions. And in others, I've seen it lead to a path of learned helplessness, a place also where we've lost our intuition.

But why does this happen, and how can you recover, and also, how can you keep yourself from burning out again? I personally think it starts with assessing the kind of energetic state you've been living in. Are you living in a masculine state or a feminine one? Both are very important, don't get me wrong, but are you able to easily transition from one to the other?

This ability to come back to your biological programming is so important for your fertility, too. Keep listening because if any of this has resonated with you or has piqued your interest in any way at all, I think today's conversation with Jess will be so important for your journey. Enjoy the show. Jess Ashe [00:02:00] of Jessica Ashe Wellness.

Welcome, Jess. I'm super excited to have you here. I have admired your work for so long and Really, the work that you've done for so many years, honestly, has been not only life changing for so many women, but also influential to me as well. And so I'm just so grateful to have you on the show today. Welcome.

[00:02:20] Jess: Thank you so much for having me, Lauren. And I appreciate your kind words. Your work is also so inspiring to me. I learned so much from you. So it feels good to be able to give and take a little bit. I learned so much from you. Just the female body and the way that you're approaching prenatal nutrition.

It's just so powerful. It's incredible Thank you so much.

[00:02:40] Loren: That means a lot and again, it's mutual. So Really excited to have you here and for our conversation today because I think it's gonna be really helpful to a lot of people So for those that aren't familiar Can you share more about your story and kind of how you got into doing the work that you do today?

[00:03:00] Jess: Yeah. Yeah. I think for a lot of us, it kind of is a metamorphosis or an evolution over time. And I. I didn't start thinking that I was ever going to end up where I'm at. I got interested in health at a really young age. I had health problems very young, digestive problems, and then when I went through puberty I had a lot of different period problems, and so that led me to be put on birth control.

And after birth control, I think just going on and at such a young age and then coming off of it at such a young age, it really kind of catapulted me into a lot of different like inflammatory issues. I had autoimmune symptoms. I was being diagnosed with autoimmune diseases. I had a lot of different symptoms of PCOS.

And so I ended up getting diagnosed with PCOS. And there was just a lot of issues I was dealing with, like really severe digestive issues after that. And jumping around from doctor to doctor being told, Oh, you know, your tests are normal. And just kind of that feeling of, Oh, it's all in your head. Like your problems are not as bad as you're saying that they are.

And knowing that, I think I came to the conclusion really young that If I want something, if I want health, it's gonna be up to me. And I remember, you know, just kind of taking steps, doing research. That was a time when paleo was becoming really, really popular and going gluten free and dairy free. Like, that was, you know, there wasn't very many options, but the conversation was beginning.

And so I just kind of started taking steps in a direction and then ended up really liking to just do research and really taking it very seriously. And... deciding at some point that I wanted this to be my career. And I started as a personal trainer and was working with a lot of middle aged women. And what I started to realize was the whole calories in calories out was not reality.

And that was being taught, you know, to all different types of nutrition and health professionals is, you know, you just want to expend more calories than you're intaking.

[00:05:00] But what I noticed is these women were intaking sometimes less than 600 calories a day. And what they would do is they would try to eat as little as possible.

So they would maybe skip breakfast and then they would get so hungry that around lunch they like would just grab a brownie off of the table at work and they'd be like, Okay, I'm gonna be good for the rest of the day. And then they try to extend and they'll have their glass of wine. And then at night they just get so hungry and they're like, Oh, I was so bad, Jessica, you know, so bad.

And after my salad, I raided the pantry, and I started to notice this pattern over and over again in women, and I actually had that pattern in myself too, where it was just this, I was trying to eat so cleanly and so well, and then there would be a point where it's like my brain would just leave the system, and I would be, you know, I always say knuckles deep in a pint of ice cream, and so.

I just really wanted to understand the why behind this and really the hormonal reasons why, because I started to notice even early on before I was interested in nutrition and hormones that there was something different going on between men and women. Like men were not approaching food in the same way and their ability to lose weight was very different than women.

And this was just from a personal training perspective. But then I went on to study nutrition and then study more like functional nutrition. I really, really just wanted to dig deep myself and so I have spent thousands and thousands of hours just in different types of textbooks and just all different types of resources just really learning what makes women tick on a physiological level and how their biology is so different and so sensitive and really craves certain aspects of stability and safety.

And that has kind of led me to what I teach today. And it's metamorphosized over the years and really changed. And I've changed a lot of my ideas and viewpoints as we do when we grow, but it really has led me to this day. 

[00:07:03] Loren: Yeah, I think there's honestly so many parallels in your story with my own and And I know for a fact that so many women in the audience can really resonate with your story as well, because I myself was on a bit of a restricted diet as well.

I was on a vegan diet and I found myself binging and not understanding why, but I was starving. I was just like, I'm just so hungry. I can't stop. And my knuckle deep thing was nut butter. And I just could not stop eating nut butters. I'd be good in terms of like eating, you know, my, my healthy vegan meals, but then I'd be starving at some point during the day or even at night.

Just like, I'm still starving. I have this insatiable need for more fuel. And then I would eat and binge. And then, you know, I'd feel terrible.

[00:08:00] Not only Did that hurt my stomach really bad? But also I just feel bad about myself and what I did. You know, there's a lot of shame involved. And so it was just a cycle of just like binging and then shame and then, you know, trying to compensate by punishing.

And biologically speaking, that was not a diet for me. And I understood that relatively quickly. It took me a year and a half, but you know, I lost my period and. I did not dive into nutrition though until my experience with the birth control pill and being given no other option than to take my health into my own hands very similarly to you.

And I feel like it's only really until we deal with some like really catastrophic or debilitating health issue. Sometimes this is the case. Do we really start to pay attention and really advocate for ourselves? And one of the things that I love about your work is that you are Helping women become more proactive to prevent them from being stuck in this place where it's just like, it's gotten [00:09:00] so bad that, you know, or helping them realize that what they're experiencing is not normal, even if they are stuck in this place, and that there are other things that you can do. 

[00:09:09] Jess: That is incredible. And I feel like we're not alone in that, you know, this idea of just, I mean, the nut butter binge alone, I think I kind of coined the term because I feel like that is so many women when we get on these restrictive diets, it's like, well, nut butters are technically something I'm allowed to eat.

And it's the only calorically dense food we're eating. So it's like, our body's just like, you know, more of that. And for me, I used to do that too. And my digestion would just be wrecked for days. And it would be like, why do I feel like this? But I do believe that as women, just understanding our physiology really helps empower us and I don't think it's my job to tell people what to do.

I think that there is a point, though, where we get in our life where we're, like, up against a wall and there's no other way except for us

[00:10:00] to, like, dig our own fingernails into the wall and claw ourselves out, and it's not necessarily, like, a pretty process. It can be really gritty, really uncomfortable. I mean, anyone that's been through a healing journey, as we both have, there are times when it is very difficult.

Like, you don't know if you're headed in the right direction. You don't know what you're doing is the right thing, but you keep going back to, well, no one else has been able to help me thus far, so I might as well just do it myself. And in that, we find a lot of transformation, but I feel like we as women, we're really good at alchemizing our pain.

You know, once we go through something, we can really change it into something that helps so many others. That's our gift. 

[00:10:45] Loren: That's beautiful. I've never thought about it that way, but that's really well said. And you've just spoke about this metamorphosis. And I think life is really just a evolutionary journey.

We don't really stop changing. But one thing I noticed is that you recently made a shift in your practice, which you alluded to earlier. Can you share more about what inspired this change and what you're focused on now? Cause I'd love to hear more about 

[00:11:09] Jess: it. Personally, my work is always inspired by what I'm going through.

And I think when I started, especially JessAsh Wellness as women know it today, it was so educational based around just hormonal education, nutrition education, cycle education. And when I started talking about these concepts, they were just something that I was really digging deeply into myself, and I saw nobody else talking about these things in the way that I was talking about them.

And so I thought, well, I have something to share that's new and different, and let me just share it. And Jessicash Wellness exploded on social media. It was such a fast and rapid fire, which I'm incredibly grateful for, of course, but it grew so quickly that I was just kind of stuck in this. I was educating and educating and educating. And there became a point where I realized, man,

[00:12:00] there's so many other people doing this now. Like I'm not the only one doing it anymore. Now we've had so many others rise up in the space. I think, and I kept hearing from Followers and customers and clients that they were kind of hitting the same problems, that we became aware of how important it was to become nourished.

We've become aware of how important our physiology is and honoring and respecting it from a physical level is, but I kept seeing women kind of hit the same wall where they would jump from restrictive diet to restrictive diet, and then they discovered pro metabolic nutrition. And they turned it into its own very restrictive diet, and it became a very fear based, a very structured, very black and white thinking kind of way of eating.

And that's really when I started to pull away from social media a little bit and say, Really, what is needed in this space now? Because what I'm doing, I don't really think it's needed anymore, and I can feel it kind of in my soul, [00:13:00] it's not aligning quite well. as much anymore. It was really important. And then I kind of just felt this need to pull back and to really refocus and think, okay, what are women needing now?

Because we were able to, as a community, really flip the whole health and nutrition space on its head. I mean, at the time when I first started talking about some of these concepts, like Dairy is not inflammatory and it's possible that it could work for you. And, oh, you might be able to tolerate sourdough better than gluten free bread.

These were really revolutionary concepts to people and they had a really hard time wrapping their minds around it. And no one was talking about it because what was popular was, you know, eating tons of vegetables and don't eat dairy, don't eat gluten, don't eat eggs, don't eat this, don't eat that, you know, don't eat coffee, don't drink coffee.

Like there was such a list of don'ts and not very many lists. of dues. And so we were able to really shift women's perspectives in a lot of ways as, okay, now I really understand a lot more that it is important for me to be nourished.

[00:14:00] I need to focus on what foods I need rather than the foods that I don't need.

Now there's kind of this gap where women are still stuck in the cycle of fear and they're really having a hard time trusting themselves, I think, even more than ever with the amount of information overload that is out there. We're so focused on so many things that we're not really knowing how to prioritize and really what we've lost is the ability to trust ourselves.

And what I was finding was there was a lot of almost warring with oneself as the female experience is kind of like this curse, you know, I know that this is what I need, but, you know, it's so annoying that this is how my body works. And so I just wanted to change the person. of giving women a different perspective on what the feminine experience is, that we have a very much a deeper purpose.

And there is a spirituality to being a woman that just can't be denied. And when it is denied,

[00:15:00] it just withers a part of our spirit, which withers a part of our body. And no matter how much nutrition or supplementation that we do, it's not going to fix this deep. deep hunger that we have. And so we're going to keep searching.

We're going to keep scrolling. We're going to keep going and going and going to the point of where we're so stressed out, which is where so many women are right now, where it's just, they're stuck in this weird cycle of being so stressed, but continuing to seek and seek it for more and more and more. And they're getting to this place where they're just so overstimulated and so overwhelmed that they go numb and they're burned out and they don't know what the next step is.

They don't know where their direction is. It's like they have all this knowledge floating around in their head, but the action is like, what do I do next? And I just started hearing that over and over. And I think in the past couple of years, since 2020. So much has shifted for all of us. We slowed down and then we realized how good it felt to slow down

.[00:16:00] And so now as things are getting back into that hustle and bustle, most of us are looking around like our bodies are moving, but our minds are screaming no. And so I think the conversation really needed to be started of. What does it really look like to trust our intuition, to live within the rhythms of our body?

Looking at hormones, but then beyond hormones, and that's really what my new focus is, is just hormones and beyond. 

[00:16:26] Loren: Mm hmm. Wow, there's so many profound things that you lay down, and I think that it's such a testament. And it makes so much sense with what you're saying now. You know, you talk about soul deep hunger.

I completely get it. And I think there's like, no better way to describe that. And it's so true because I feel like there's just this. Almost anxiety and, you know, social media doesn't lend itself well to anything else, but this, but this seeking of additional information, you know, we're being [00:17:00] trained to consume short form content, just dopamine hit after dopamine hit.

And that feels good in the short term. And, you know, maybe finding the nutrients that are good for this. Sure, somebody lists it in a post and great, you have that information now and that feels good. You get that dopamine hit. You have something to like move forward on. But what that's not doing is getting you closer to finding your answers, which instead of looking outward and externally, which we've been doing for so long.

Again, social media is really conditioning us to do this. And the information we have at our fingertips is just so amazing, but also just overwhelming at the same time, that it's just taking us further away from being able to trust ourselves, as you've said. And instead of seeking these answers externally, sometimes the answer is just you know, within us, we just have to reestablish that connection.

[00:18:00] And it's really, truly mind, body, soul healing is what you're describing. 

[00:18:04] Jess: Yes, exactly. Like we have come into this place of the double edged sword where social media, like you said, you have so much at the tips of your fingers, which is. an incredible gift, but if you have no sense of self of who you are and what direction you're heading and what you're about and what your purpose is, all that information becomes dangerous because now you're just kind of juggling all of these different thoughts that are running through your head and you have no way to decipher it or you have no lens on how to utilize your intuition and feel what you're drawn to or what you're deterred from.

There's no intuition left and it just kind of feels like you're cut off from the deepest part of yourself, which as women, we do possess this incredible power of being able to be connected to something deeper. We're so sensitive and.

[00:19:00] We have hormones that allow us to be sensitive, and instead of looking at that as a power, and really honing our power, our society and as a culture, we have been cut off from that kind of generational passing down of like, here's your power as a woman, this is what you do.

Here's your purpose. It's not like you have to do it, but here you've been past this. This is an honor and this is what you do with this power. We don't believe any of that or we don't know any of that. And so I think as women, a lot of us are floundering around wondering why we feel so horribly, why we're so stressed out all the time, why we don't feel connected to life, why we can't enjoy colors and why we can't enjoy anything that we used to enjoy.

I think a lot of us crave the part of our girlhood when we were young of the wonder and the imagination that we were able to have and we'd feel so dull compared to that.

[00:20:00] And I think a lot of us know there's a deep knowing that that is a part of ourselves and we miss it. We're grieving for it and we don't realize it.

And so there's this weird disconnect right now where we're cut off from who we are. And I just want to start opening up the conversation. I by no means have all the answers, but I think it's a really big missing piece to health because the alternative is that we just keep. getting stuck in this information vicious cycle.

And we just keep going around and around and around and keep doing the same things over and over again. And that really breaks my heart. To me, that is tragic. I'd rather start some hard conversations and like, let's open the doors to something new, rather than get stuck here forever. 

[00:20:42] Loren: I couldn't agree more.

And thank you for starting that conversation. There's so many things I resonated with that you just said to and I've been in that place. where I feel just dull and creatively just spent. And it's hard. Crawl your way out. I think this is a great segue because one of the things you do talk about is burnout.

And I love that you highlight this because I myself have felt it. I know for a fact, our listeners have felt it as well. And My question is, why do you think so many women today are burnt out? You know, we kind of talked about a lot of the reasons why, but from, I guess, a physiological standpoint too, are there any other reasons, aside from physiology as well, that they could be burnt out?

[00:21:27] Jess: Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. I think we're dealing with a dual issue because, of course, we've been talking so much about the physical side, you know, you could just scroll for two minutes and you'll, as long as you say it out loud and you say, I'm burnt out, you'll get some videos pretty quick on, on adrenal health and thyroid health and people talking about burnout, telling you what minerals to take.

It's almost like magic, right? But what happens is the burnout goes deeper than just the physiological. Yes, we need minerals. Yes, we [00:22:00] are in a state of physiological stress or survival where our body feels like everything is kind of a life or death situation. Our nervous system is trained to react instead of respond.

And so every little thing that we're going through, we're kind of hypersensitive and jumping into a state of survival very quickly. And when we jump into that fight or flight state, it's so energetically expensive. It really shifts our resources to focus on the things that we need to do to survive. And unfortunately, this shifts away from proper metabolic function, proper mitochondrial function, all of this stuff that you already know.

I'm mostly just saying this for the listeners. What happens is once we get primed, I almost see it as like once we get stuck in this pattern, it takes us actively working to get out of this pattern. And this pattern goes deeper than just physiologically. So yes, eating more regularly, getting enough protein, getting the nutrients you need,

[00:23:00] focusing on minerals, you know, focusing on sleep, all of those are good things.

Focusing on our light exposure. But, we could be so stuck in a state of fear, fight or flight, that all of those things, all these to do's on our to do list, actually add more stress. And then what begins to happen is, we kind of train our brain that, oh, if I get exposed to a little bit of blue light, like, danger, danger.

So now, we're actually reacting in this fear based way, and our new lifestyle has turned us into a new state of fight or flight, where now everything's dangerous, everything's toxic, everything's going to damage our system. And we feel like we just want to be like this little bubble boy that just stays inside of a bubble and doesn't ever leave.

And we start to forget how resilient our body is. And so we get into the state of belief where we're kind of this delicate, fragile little piece of glass that's going to shatter at any moment.

 [00:24:00] And so, There is more to the physical, yes, we need to support our system, but on the emotional and spiritual side, we really need to start understanding how our body functions, what our body is for, what our purpose is, and re establish a strong sense of belief in ourself.

Because if we don't have that, then we're just going to kind of jump from to do list to to do list, diet to diet, we're going to... really focus on the physical, and the physical can sometimes turn even into more of a stressor. So, I think that the physical side is so important and focusing on balancing our blood sugar and supporting our liver and all of the things that we talk about in the physical side, of course, they're important.

But we need to not neglect that there is a deeper aspect to it, and if we're living completely out of alignment with what we want, I'm a big believer that women are, from a young age, we're kind of almost trained like little monkeys to what we should want. So we're told, you know, you could be anything, you can do anything, you can do everything you put your mind to.

And I believe that. I absolutely believe that. But because there's no education about our physical bodies and our physiology and how it... functions, we have no comprehension of the physiological cost to doing everything and being everything to everyone. There is a downside to that. And physiologically what's happening is we have women who have filled their lives with what they should be doing from the outside, right?

You should be this, you should do this, you should be this. You couldn't possibly just be that, you gotta be this, this, this, this, this, this, this. And so we have this woman, let's say she's 35, and she's been living this life forever. She's been trained since she was one years old that she could be everything to anyone, do everything she wants.

And nothing was what she actually deeply aligned with, because she never was taught to tune into who she was and what she wanted.

[00:26:00] It was all about the shoulds, what this person wants me to be doing, what this person wants me to be doing, what I should be doing. And we are in this state now where women are so disconnected and numbed out from their experience because none of their choices have aligned with who they are.

And some of them are even feeling like they don't even know who they are. Their purpose has not been clearly defined for them. And this is deep, you know, this is why I have many episodes on my podcast and we're still exploring this conversation because there's so many facets to this, you know, our relationship with our mother and how we're raised and So many different things, but it really comes down to, as women, we need to have a strong sense of self.

We need to understand our purpose, not just biologically and physiologically, but also our place in the world. And if we don't feel that, and we just feel like it could be anything, it could be anything, to everyone, all the time, and we have no sense of who we are and what we're made for and what we want to do, then we

[00:27:00] just are going to be burned out, because we are just kind of...

A victim to just outside sources of information just kind of swaying us back and forth and back and forth. Of course we're exhausted because we're playing the monkey to everybody's circus except our own. Mm hmm. 

[00:27:17] Loren: I couldn't have said it better myself. Just, it's so true and there are so many nuggets in what you said and I do think that there's just so much to break down there.

It's almost like a reclaiming of self that needs to happen. And giving yourself permission to be selfish, no matter how bad you think being selfish is or how naughty that was perceived when you were growing up. And it's so interesting because I think there is a shift. You know, I think. That women are starting to reclaim this and this is the kind of a side example [00:28:00] but it was something that came up in a mother's group that I recently was at this weekend and It was about setting boundaries with older generations Essentially a boundaries with children.

So the older generation I guess you could say boomers and Generation X if you ever were to set a boundary or voice something that you didn't want them to do, not because it was about the person, because you want to protect your energy. It's considered disrespectful or selfish. And what the conversation was, was how a lot of women are dealing with this in terms of setting boundaries with their parents or, you know, their in laws.

And I thought it was just interesting how it's being perceived that way by the older generation. And how dare you tell me I can't see my grandchild right now, you know, I'm going to drive over.

[00:29:00] Something like that, you know, but I think it's very applicable to just your life in general. You know, it's kind of like the doormat mentality.

I've grown up thinking that too. You know, you're kind of like obligated. There's so many obligations that you have to say yes to, and you have to do, and even the language like that you use, I have to do this, I should do this, that matters a lot. And so I think if you can start to kind of look at the way that you talk to yourself, as well as how you say things specifically, and then consider that even though you don't think maybe You're like, Oh, I don't feel like that's obligatory.

But if you say it that way, maybe subconsciously you do, and you can start to kind of get your compass a little more aligned with what you actually should be doing and not. 

[00:29:56] Jess: Yeah, those are amazing points. Like, I have thought about that a lot myself. It almost feels like we are these little puppets, you know?

I know a lot of people call it generational trauma, but I actually call it generational spells, because I think that it's like, we, here we are, just kind of going through the motions, moving, and we're like, why are we doing that? Physiologically, our body is breaking down in front of us, hormonally, we feel awful, we're exhausted, our hair's falling out, and we just, boop, boop, boop, we keep going through the motions, it's almost like we're under these spells, and it's, a lot of times, I think it's just like you said, it's because of older generations, what was expected, or even just assumed, is just kind of passed down, and a lot of us, we have our mother's words playing in our head, our father's words playing in our head, that's really what shapes us, right?

The adults in our life shape us. And we get to this point where we start to really become aware of the physiological cost of just being the yes man and being yes to everything all the time. I couldn't possibly, you know, [00:31:00] put up a boundary or really to me, I think. A boundary is just where you end and someone else begins.

So all you're doing is not really you having to build this boundary up. It's just you having to enforce that, no, that's a part of my identity or my well being. And that, you know, that's just what it is. Like, sorry, that's just where my territory ends and your territory begins. Like, like, I'm just sorry that I have to explain that to you, but this is just where it is.

And I think a lot of women think of, boundaries of something. Oh, now I have to, like, build this thing and enforce it. And it becomes this very difficult thing. And it's like, there is a point where you end and someone else begins. And it's up to you to just be, and that's that mama bear mentality, where it's like, I guard my territory.

And this is my territory. And Don't step on my territory without me inviting you in and we don't feel that that we're allowed to do that as women that part of ourselves that fierce benevolence,

[00:32:00] I like to call it where it's there's this fierceness, but it's for the good of all. It's not just for the good of myself.

It's for the good of my child and it's for your good as well because you're not going to come and stomp all over my territory either. So, So it's for the good of all, but there's a ferociousness that we as women have had a very difficult time stepping into, but like you said, I think we're starting to rise.

And I think the first step to that is usually rage, rage and anger is believed to be the symbol of our boundaries being violated, whether they're being violated by ourselves or someone else. And so I've started to see this kind of, especially in the health and wellness industry, where the first. step was just all these mothers and women have just kind of started rising up in rage.

And you see it in the ranting and the raging and the, you know, there's this energy on social media, but now we're shifting past that and we're saying, okay, now like how can we act differently?

[00:33:00] How can we proactively be different as women? Established new patterns that are for the good of all. And I think that's where we are as a collective of women or as a group of women, we're trying to figure it out and establish something new that has never been done before.

And whenever that happens, it's a little difficult, we kinda stumble our way through. Yeah, 

[00:33:21] Loren: yeah. But that stumbling is so worth it. And you know, it's just gonna set the precedent for. More women reclaiming themselves and you know, I think that's really interesting the way you described it the good of all I think that's what we think we're doing when we say yes, it's like yes This is for everyone, you know, the more I can expend myself and stretch myself the better It will be for everyone, but no one's going to find you very helpful or It's not good if your cup is completely empty.

You can't show up, you know, your best self. And so by creating boundaries, you can start to reclaim yourself and that will be actually better for all and yourself as well. And, you know, you don't necessarily even have to communicate your boundaries. I think there are some unspoken ones, I think. Definitely, in relationships that matter to you, absolutely communicate them.

But I think there's also probably a whole other conversation we could have about boundaries. For sure, for sure. But that is amazing. So if you're going through it right now, hopefully this is what you need to hear. And one of the other things I really love that you highlight. And I think it's just so powerful is that you recognize that women are not small men, and you're trying to get them to recognize this as well.

And you mentioned this earlier, but I do want to kind of give it its own time right now. And you also talk about how it's really important to be able to respect your feminine physiology, which you've also mentioned many times now,

[00:35:00] versus trying to adapt to the masculine world that we live in, because the world we live in is.

So can you share why this is essential and kind of what I'm talking about to in case somebody doesn't know the feminine versus masculine kind of thing?

[00:35:15] Jess: Yeah, and I know this can be a tricky conversation because we have a lot of different things going on right now. And, you know, this kind of idea that women are not small.

males came into the health space a while back. I think originally, who talked about it, I think that's like her tagline, women are not small men, was Stacy Sims, Dr. Stacy Sims. And there were a few women coming out, the cycle syncing, and then the other crowd was the cycle syncing crowd that was coming in and saying, you know, exercise according to your cycle and live according to your cycle.

And What I started to notice, as much as I resonate with both of these ideas, what I started to realize and recognize though, is as much as we were [00:36:00] talking about women not being small men, a lot of what we were doing and the approaches in our life, we were still really showing up with a lot of masculine energy.

We're like, okay, I'm going to start cycle syncing and I'm going to do lists. You know, I'm writing my list and this is what I can eat in this phase of my cycle. And this is what I can eat this phase of my cycle. And this is how I can exercise in this. Phase of my cycle, and I'm like, that really just kind of denies all of femininity.

Or on the flip side, this kind of idea of like, we need to eat more than men. We're a little bit more sensitive to starvation hormones, yet we're pushing our bodies. No matter what phase of our cycle we're in, we're pushing our bodies to the maximum limit and we're approaching exercise. Similarly to men, you know, we're exercising like men would exercise.

So I've been seeing how we have these kind of two groups of people. And then of course we've kind of had the more trad wife type movement kind of step in. And I respect all these types of belief systems. And I see the why behind them, but what I've noticed, and then we have the women that are just like a slow down and just like be around your children all day.

And, you know, we're just going to kind of go with the flow and like live our lives. with the flow of things and all of that. I mean, that is wonderful and it sounds wonderful, but for me, it's not realistic because we live in this very, like you said, what I call like shadow masculine world, because I think men are struggling as much as women right now, too.

I think we don't live in a world that's structured with true masculinity, because true masculinity cares for the good of all, and as action based and action oriented as it is, I feel like if we were being exposed to real masculinity, we would be taken care of, because that is the epitome of what real masculinity is, we would be taken care of and protected.

But we're in this extractive, transactional society, which is kind of that shadow masculine, which is like, how much can I get from you? And how much can we extract from you before you just can't work for us anymore and you're just not usable anymore?

[00:38:00] And so I don't blame any of us for wanting to step out of this system that we're kind of all stuck in.

We're becoming aware that it's just getting faster and faster. And here we are, slow down a little bit. Like we need to get a little bit slower. So when it comes to looking at male physiology versus female physiology, really, I like to look at it as our bodies are centered around two different rhythms where male physiology really just reflects.

It's more of a circadian rhythm, this kind of more steady, every 24 hours, we can rely on the sun to come out every day. You know, it rises and falls and rises and falls. And then when we look at the female physiology, we have this extra infradian rhythm. So not only are we cycling with the sun, but we're also cycling with the moon in a way where we have every day is a little bit different.

Just like when you look at the moon every day, the phases are slightly different because we're moving in a direction, there's a rhythm or a pattern that we're replicating. 

Loren: [00:39:00] Hey, it's Lauren. If you want to learn how to embrace your female physiology and nurture your feminine energy to support your fertility and trying to conceive journey, I invite you to join my e course Conscious Conception.

That helps you prepare your mind, body, and soul. and spirit for pregnancy. I literally had a student the other day share with me that after many years of trying to conceive, she was able to get pregnant in less than two months by implementing the steps on reestablishing her feminine vitality and intuition that I outlined in my course, and that it was the missing piece for her.

I'm so excited for her and I would love to be able to celebrate your positive pregnancy test with you one day, too. Learn more about how you can reclaim your femininity and fertility at innatefertility. org Get pregnant. And if you're loving the show, don't forget to leave a review. Now back to the episode.

[00:39:53] Jess: And so this leads us, you know, our biological purpose. I always like to clarify that because whatever we choose to do is our choice to make. But we both have different biological purposes. The masculine is there to give. It's there to give and give and protect and provide. And the feminine, that biology, is there to receive, receive, receive, and then birth out or give out, right?

So we need to collect energy. We're energy collectors. We collect, collect, collect. Then we birth something big. And that doesn't just mean human babies. You know, we're creators. We have big visions. Like there are many things that we can create, but This leads to the use of energy being different between the two.

Males are going to use energy a little differently. It's going to be a little bit more simple because they're high testosterone. They're going to expend energy a lot more efficiently and they have less of a tendency to store fat because they don't have as much estrogen and they are much more resilient to stress because of their high testosterone and lower estrogen levels.

[00:41:00] They don't have a ton of progesterone, but they have a little bit. But. their high testosterone really gives them a lot more stress resilience. And you see in the health and wellness space, you know, you see so many men who talk about intermittent fasting and carnivore and one meal a day and cold therapy.

And let's just expose ourselves to as much shock and stress as we possibly can because our ancestors may or may have not done this, you know, and they're like, Oh, I feel great. I feel amazing. And then on the flip side, you see a woman trying to do these. And she's like, why do I have nut butter binges every night?

And why do I feel like my hair's falling out and I can't regulate my temperature? And, oh my gosh, I lost my period. And so we see how just the health and wellness space alone operates from this idea that women are small men and women can do what men thrive on and also thrive. And that just is not. True.

It's just never going to be true because our body is so obsessed with reproduction, and it's really centered around reproduction. And it requires a level of safety and stability that the male physiology just doesn't require. And we are meant to take things that are small and make them big. And in doing that, we need to focus our energy and Not just from a emotional level, but also from a physical level, we see our body go through these seasons where we turn inward, we slow down a little bit, and then we turn outward and we expand.

Even in the menstrual cycle, we see that, where when we're bleeding, we turn inward, and then over the course of the cycle, we kind of sprout outward like a flower. I know some people, you know, refer to it as, seasons. And there's so many different parallels that we can make. But we as women are just a little bit more, I don't like to say chaotic, even though we are kind of a controlled chaos, almost in a way that if it's not within the rhythm of nature,

[00:43:00] we start to get these really jagged lines where our rhythm feels completely out of balance.

And then our whole system starts to get out of balance. We're just a little bit more delicate. And the way that our rhythm has to stay in harmony, and if we get bumped out of our rhythm, or we don't have harmony because we don't have safety, and that's what it comes down to, our body is feeling like it's in danger, it's in a state of survival, then our physiology is not going to function no matter how much cold water therapy we throw at it, no matter how much intermittent fasting fasting, we throw at it, there will be a point where a woman's like, why am I not losing weight?

Why am I gaining weight here? And it's because our body is just so primed to add safety wherever it can. And for our bodies fat, well, it's stored fuel for later. It's safety in a way. So I know that was all over the place, but pretty much males, they're really good at taking things that are really big and making them very small and having a lot more steady energy when they're in a balanced.

And females are really good at taking [00:44:00] something really small and making it really big and focusing on building energy within us. Thank you 

[00:44:07] Loren: for simplifying that. And I know that's like, it's much more complex than that, but I think you made a lot of really great points. And I think just kind of like knowing.

if you're imbalanced, and you kind of alluded to some of these things too, could be symptoms. So like losing your period, being cold all the time, losing your hair, like that could easily, of course, you know, you can relate it to thyroid, you can pathologize it, and you can get, you know, as scientific as you want to.

But I think also from, a sort of high level perspective, eagle's eye view. It's an imbalance also between the feminine and the masculine energies as well. And I think what we were talking about earlier in terms of burnout, that's a sign, in my opinion, that you're living in a very masculine state when, you know, you really need to be in a more feminine state or nurturing more of that energy.

I know I personally run Like default masculine. Same. Yeah. Yeah. So it takes a lot of self awareness for me personally to get into a nurture and have enough of that feminine energy. And, you know, I do have these really strong feminine tendencies like painting and creating, but you have to balance that as the feminine is receiving as well, not just giving, giving, giving like the masculine is.

And I think I also see this a lot in the fertility world in the work that I do too. Women will come to me trying to conceive, not having success for six months to a year. The list of supplements that they're taking is like, 20 long. They're like, what else should I be taking? They're like, I'm doing all the right things.

[00:46:00] I'm eating all the right foods, taking all these supplements, you know, doing all the exercises, and I'm just not seeing the results I want. And at that point, I think it's really important to take a step back too, and to go, okay, Where is my energy flowing right now? And what can I actually minimize to be able to have the energy to nurture more of this feminine energy to receive?

Because you have to receive in order to create new life, to create anything. You have to be open and receptive too. And I think, you know, this is also relevant to anyone not struggling with their fertility or wanting to get pregnant. But I think this is especially important in this phase of life, because This energetic mismatch is a huge reason I see for fertility issues persisting.

And I think also what we were talking about earlier as far as like being yes women. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And spreading ourselves too thin. The amount of breakthroughs that I've had with my clients in terms of them realizing like, Oh my gosh. I might even be with the wrong partner is like shocking. I never intend for that to happen.

This is something that they come to realize themselves, but I don't want to scare anyone. Like, this is not a... 

[00:47:17] Jess: No, I know what you mean though. I've seen that kind of stuff happen as well. This 

[00:47:21] Loren: is not the common thing or normal thing. Like, you know, don't expect that to happen if you, you know, you do. work with me.

It is just so interesting when this happens, that it's just like, wow, this person is having a huge breakthrough. And it is sort of like crawling through, as you were describing up the wall or out of the hole. But that's when the true healing really happens. And then they'll come back to me with their partner.

the new partner, and they're experiencing a lot more success in that regard. I think just because they're with the right person too, and energetically in the right place. 

[00:48:03] Jess: Wow. That is so powerful. I have seen similar things happen because that is a conversation I have with a lot of my colleagues is the fertility space right now.

And I am not as knowledgeable as you are, but it just seems like it's almost this like dog eat dog race, you know, where it's just like it has come to this point where women, because they're in their masculine energy, it has become to this place where it's about almost getting pregnant now feels like it's an achievement, or it feels like it's something that they've accomplished, rather than being something that is like in the right time in the right place, You know, that, that feminine energy where I'm just open to receive and I'm there to trust and surrender because that's really what being in our feminine place requires is that surrender to the flows and rhythms of nature.

And that's the hardest part. I don't look at surrender as weakness. I look at it as a really powerful thing because it's an energy. action.

[00:49:00] Surrender is an action. Trust is an action. And it's something that is very difficult to do. But when we are in that place and we're able to surrender, that is really when we are allowed to receive.

We can receive and receive and receive. And so many women, we have been taught that that's weakness. And so it feels so foreign to get out of that. I take control of everything. I'm in control of every little step of my protocol and every step of my journey and every part of this. And this can apply to anything, not just fertility.

I see this with, you know, women who get PCOS diagnoses or autoimmune diagnoses or even thyroid. issues. They really are. It's like, okay, what can I do to just take action on the situation and control the situation? And I know that can make us feel good, but sometimes, actually many of the times, it's not actually conducive.

And like you said, sometimes we actually just need to take a step back and say, what is contributing to my body not feeling a sense of [00:50:00] safety? I've seen so many crazy stories, like women who have worked For a dozen years and one career path. And then the next time I talked to her, she's like, Oh, I quit my job.

And you're like, wait, what? Like, the job you loved so much and you were so attached to, and it was like, no, that was the problem. You know, and just this awareness overcomes these women, and then it's like, boom. They realize that was their problem, and then all of a sudden they're like, oh, you know, I don't need my thyroid medication anymore, or I don't need my supplements.

Of course, I'm not saying that that always is the case, but it's just these crazy stories where once a woman gets out of that, sometimes out of her own way and recognizes what the thing was that was creating so much stress and so much fear. Sometimes it's fear, sometimes it's shame, sometimes it's just overwhelm, and they can just say, nope, I'm going to eliminate that from my life.

I'm going to step away from that. I've been violating my own boundaries this whole time. It's crazy to see what can happen.

[00:51:00] Loren: It is. And those are kind of like extreme cases and the ones. The ones I mentioned to for sure, but it just goes to show like how radically quickly things can change to, you know, once you start creating that self awareness and reclaiming yourself.

And so, you know, I think relinquishing control or understanding that we don't actually have any control is really important. There's definitely proactive things you can do. And I love that part, but I think going with the flow is absolutely. Super important and not holding on for dear life, clinging to this idea of what you thought things should be is super important and something that would be hard to do, but can definitely start to shift you in the right energetic state and allow more clarity, I think, as well.

So in addition to that, sort of like going with the flow, releasing control, what are some other ways that women can start to reclaim their female physiology?

[00:52:01] Jess: I think it really is about paying attention to and being aware of the spirit you show up to things with. So, for example, like, we're not saying that the physical changes, the nutritional changes, the supplements, the lifestyle changes are not effective.

We know how effective they are and how much transformation they can contribute. However, but when we show up, In a spirit of just, I'm going to do my part, and then I'm going to leave the rest up to whatever, you know, we believe in, our higher power, or whatever we believe in, I can only do so much, and this is what I'm going to give, but this is a 50 50, this is not just me, this is, there's something bigger than me at play, and that is really me.

Thank you. the biggest thing. And I think it just starts with awareness. We don't need to force ourselves. The cool thing is our feminine energy and our feminine physiology is ours.

[00:53:00] We already have it. We don't need to like do anything to, you know, hone it. It's not dead inside of us if it's being ignored or it's being overridden by us.

Feeling like we need to be in control all the time, or we have no trust or we're kind of always in our fight or flight state. Really the next step is just to pay attention to when we're jumping in that place, in that place of where we need to constantly control and overthink everything and ask ourselves, how do I feel here?

Like, oh, this doesn't feel so good. And when we start to recognize like. Oh, now I'm really seeing that when I jump into this place, my temperatures go down. It's taking me a couple days to get them back up. My pulse rate changes. Maybe my ovulation is delayed a little bit. Oh, wow. My period was late this month and I really spent like a whole week just stressing about.

X, Y, Z thing that, you know, I didn't even need to worry about. It's just showing up with awareness and starting to recognize that when we're stepping into

[00:54:00] that place where we feel like we have to control everything and everything is up to us and the burden is all ours to protect and provide and take care of and do all of the things.

How does it feel to us? What is it looking like? Just how do you feel? And then also, if you're paying attention to your physiology, how is it impacting your physiology? And once we start to practice awareness there, it only takes a little while to start to realize, Wow, I know where the problem lies. And then when we do that, you know, our power is that Just like, you know, men can step into their feminine energy whenever they want, we can step into our masculine energy whenever we want to.

Masculine energy is there as protection and provision. So sometimes when we have to mama bear up and get into our masculine energy as a protective state, that's why it's so integrated with fight or flight. It's not a bad thing. Sometimes we absolutely need to do that. As business owners, I'm sure you could agree with me, Lauren, like sometimes there is just times where you have to be in your masculine energy.

You've got to get the jobs done, you've got to make big problems small and really focus and get the team moving in the right direction. And that is a more masculine energetic state. But at the end of the day, I can say, okay, like I did what I needed to do and I got to get back into my feminine energy. I got to relax, trust that everything I did today was enough.

It's going to all work itself out. I don't need to worry about the little details or the nitty gritty and move on. And that to me is okay. I'm actively and proactively letting myself go back into what is my normal, natural state of alignment, which is that feminine energetic state. So that's kind of how I see it, is it's not that this thing that we have to control or manipulate, but more just be aware of, and then it's up to us how we want to use that.

But what I find is that once we start, we start to really recognize, Oh, wow, when my physiology is not functioning well, and I keep feeling [00:56:00] like I'm hitting that wall, it's because I am. Responding with adrenaline, responding with DHEA, responding with glucagon, responding with cortisol, like that is when a woman stays in her masculine energy, she has to shift her hormonal output in order to be able to maintain that energy.

And that requires higher levels of androgens and higher levels of stress hormones or adrenal hormones. And that will feel gross too. And that's really where like You know, pro metabolic in the pro metabolic world has been talking about these physiological concepts for so long, but not understanding that if you're in a state of where you feel like you carry the burden of survival on your back, you're going to be stuck in fight or flight for the very near future for a while.

And no amount of adrenal cocktails is going to fix that. 

[00:56:49] Loren: Yeah. Or, you know, bioidentical progesterone, vitamin E. Yeah, I think that's so well said. And yeah. I think you make a [00:57:00] really important point that I just want to kind of point out for the audience too, is that when we're talking about masculine feminine energy, we're not necessarily saying like you have to be this state permanently.

Like if you can't use your masculine energy because that's bad. Again, it's, we don't want to pathologize that either. And I think what Jess is saying is you have to be able to shift into these different energy states, but go back to your default aligned state, which for me, I have to work harder because my masculine state is.

That's my default, or masculine energy is my default, but I need to put a little extra work in making sure that I can come home and end the day and make sure that I'm nourishing and pouring into that feminine energy enough where it's not becoming. you know, a little whisper and my masculine energy is like completely taking over.

And that's my default state for day in and day out, [00:58:00] because I feel so much better when I do have enough energy and I'm expressing and showing up with this sort of full cup, if that makes sense. And, you know, it's kind of like fight or flight as well. So that was a really me. interesting and great way to describe it too, when you're not in an aligned state, it can put you into a fight or flight state and that makes so much sense in terms of female physiology, where if you're utilizing the masculine energy so much, you're kind of just getting stuck in fight or flight.

And the same thing goes for that too. We have to be able to use our fight or flight, you know, sympathetic nervous system or fight or flight. you know, phase, it's going to help us survive. Absolutely. But we have to be able to go back to the parasympathetic, the rest and digest state. And that should be really where we spend most of our time.

And our ability to transition between the two states should be seamless and easy. It shouldn't be like so hard.

[00:59:00] That's kind of what I gleaned from what you said. I don't know if you'd have anything else to add. 

[00:59:04] Jess: Oh yeah, like that is exactly what I'm trying to say. And I think if you're in a relationship, if it's women that are listening to this and you're in a relationship with a man, that can be a really helpful tool to like gauge where you're at.

Because if we're going to use the term, I love the term that you said, come home, you know, come home to, and you're still in your masculine energy and you're a partner is also very masculine. You're going to find that you're just. Bumping, bumping, bumping, bumping. It's going to feel really rocky. You're not going to feel like you're in this flowy state.

Everyone knows what it feels like to be in a really good place with your partner. And when two people are in their masculine energy, it just doesn't. flow very well. And so for me, I always feel like, Oh, this is my place to be safe. And this is my place to not carry the burden of protecting myself and worrying about every little thing, but I can get back into my feminine flow and I can just focus on creating.

[01:00:00] And really as women, I think. When we are in our feminine energy, we feel the best when we're in a state of either taking care of ourselves and filling up our cups or pouring out and nurturing or taking care of somebody or creating. And so that is a state that really, when we feel like we have gotten back to that place, that is a sign that we are back into our feminine energy.

And if you don't have a partner, the best way to describe that is our masculine energy, that part of ourselves that we can step into is there. For us to protect and provide for us. So when we step into that masculine energy That is the part of us that is there to protect us and to provide for us And then when we step back out and we get back into our feminine energy We know that that is always there to have our back to protect and provide we can step into that Any moment of any time but right now i'm back in to my flow.

So whether you're in a relationship or you're not, I find that sometimes a relationship is a helpful reminder because you pretty quickly realize like, oh man, I am in my masculine energy, like this is not good for anyone in the home. I feel like it can be a really helpful gauge, but even if we are not in a relationship, There are still ways to kind of recognize like, wow, I stepped into that state to protect myself to stand up for myself or whatever needed to happen.

And now I'm back into like, I'm safe, everything's taken care of and I can step back into just relaxing and surrendering.

[01:01:27] Loren: I love that. I love that so much. And I think maybe the flip side of this is kind of what you were talking about earlier with shadow masculinity. So if you are starting to shift more into your feminine energy.

This is kind of where I think that the handful of people that have realized that they're with the wrong partner have kind of come into this realization is because they're actually with somebody that is feminine when they should be kind of helping balance that out.

[01:02:00] So as they start to reclaim their femininity and reclaim themselves, they realize that, oh, the person I'm with is actually not taking care of me and is coming to me with this feminine energy.

This is why I've been in a masculine state for so long. And so it can really put things into perspective in possibly a different way.

[01:02:24] Jess: But it's just interesting. I love that point. I think it can be really frustrating when you are stepping more into your feminine energy. And if your partner is also in feminine energy, that can feel very frustrating.

We start to say, if I don't do it myself, like it's never going to get done. And as women, we also have the power to really. emasculate our partners as well. So there's a, a lot of a delicate dance there, but if we're always in our masculine energy, you know, the masculine drive is to protect and provide for a woman.

[01:03:00] And so men will often kind of say, okay, you're going to take it on. I'll step out gracefully. And over time. what's not recognized is that physiologically that causes them to produce more estrogen and less testosterone. And so they will become more feminine in response to your masculinity, just like vice versa.

You know, our feminine energy and encouraging them and allowing them to kind of take control will also increase their masculinity. So for those of you that are listening that are saying like, Oh no, what do I do if my partner is feeling like he's in more in his feminine energy. It's not hopeless. It's a delicate dance between the two and sometimes We don't recognize how much our behaviors have switched the energies in the household.

And then we get to a point where we're like, why is my life so overwhelming and is such a burden? And sometimes it takes that delicate dance and that delicate shift again of switching energies. And there's no perfect way to do that. Sometimes it can get a little bit rocky because it's uncomfortable and it's different and it's not what you're used to.

[01:04:00] Loren: Yeah, I think that's also an amazing point and it kind of reminds me of the postpartum period as well Almost in a way because a lot of women are just used to not accepting any help in the postpartum period too but for some reason I drew that parallel a lot, but you know, I think definitely allowing your partner to Show up the way that he is biologically programmed to.

And it can take that self awareness as well. Like, and it can be hard to allow that to happen, you know, if you're used to taking on so much, but being able to accept help is like one of the easiest things that you can start to do. And Sure, yes, please open the door for me. And yes, please help me carry my groceries to my kitchen.

I so appreciate that. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Please help me with that. Just small things like that can even start to shift your energy and allow the sort of homeostatic roles to fall into place, if that makes sense.

[01:05:03] Jess: Yeah, that's an amazing point. And I also think that that communicates something to us as well, to ourselves where I can do it.

It's never been an argument of I can carry my groceries from the car to the kitchen. Like we know we can do it. But Do we allow ourselves to be taken care of? And that is something small, but it translates into something very big. It's a spirit or an energy that we show up to life in where we allow ourselves to be taken care of, and we believe that we will be taken care of, and that is an important fundamental thing that to function in our feminine energy, we have to believe.

And if we don't believe it, then we're going to continuously just jump right back into, well, I just have to do everything by myself all the time. It's all on me. 

[01:05:52] Loren: And then that burnout happens. 

[01:05:55] Jess: And there we are back at burnout. 

[01:05:57] Loren: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, thank you for that. I really loved that perspective that you shared.

So one of the things I'd love to shift to is, you know, you mentioned pro metabolic nutrition, and

I love how you've shifted and the sort of way you've shifted your practice, you're talking about soul deep nutrition now. Can you explain what this really means and maybe what the difference is? Because I think a lot of the audience maybe knows you as pro metabolic nutrition or synonymizes that with you, but what is soul deep nutrition now?

[01:06:37] Jess: Yeah, yeah. So I feel like just gosh, wellness kind of became synonymous with pro metabolic nutrition. It's hard in our little Instagram squares to really educate fully, you know, the nuance of everything. But I've always taken a way more nuanced approach to what is now considered the pro metabolic diet than what's being taught and I feel like A lot of what has [01:07:00] happened in the pro metabolic space is kind of a shame to me, because what happened was we had a lot of people enter the space that really didn't understand the science or the biology behind these concepts and just kind of touted, you know, like, eat a raw carrot salad every day, eat every couple of hours, eat protein, eat this, you know, and they were just kind of playing this, what I'd call a sick game of telephone, where they heard someone say it and then they just kind of regurgitated it.

Oh, shit. And so we have a lot of people who are interested in this type of nutrition, and there are some really amazing and valid points in the pro metabolic approach, you know, taking a metabolism centered approach and how the cell is taking our fuel and creating energy is very important, fundamentally, and All types of nutrition can be applied to this, but it's been turned into its own type of restrictive diet.

[01:08:00] And that is really where it has lost me, and it lost a lot of other people as well. And I feel really bad for so many people who kind of came into this space and were not maybe educated properly and so they tried an approach that they thought was pro metabolic when in reality it wasn't pro their metabolism, you know, it wasn't pro metabolic for them.

So, nutrition can be really nuanced because it does rely on our experience, how we grew up, you know, where our gut microbiome is, the interventions that have taken place throughout our whole life. There's so many aspects to nutrition that determine how we do on a type of, I guess we could say nutritional protocol or plan.

And this is why I really don't like diets because they, again, it goes back to taking all that outward information instead of really turning inward and saying, how does this make me feel? Like, is this actually helping me or is this hurting me? Do I feel really good today or do I not?

[01:09:00]  And instead, we're just kind of looking to influencers to tell us exactly how to eat with no tapping into our own intuition or our own internal guide.

And so soul deep nutrition or what I'm kind of calling soul deep nutrition is just going a little bit deeper. And it does have to do with kind of all the concepts we talked about today of just returning to your feminine energy and approaching nutrition in that way. And you're going to find that you are much more intuitive on what your body needs.

And you're going to be able to kind of see beyond the rules, see beyond the fear and really determine. What works for you and what doesn't? I know that can be a really scary place for a lot of people because they're like, tell me what to do. When we get to that place of burnout, we now want to kind of contract out our health in a way.

We're too tired to think about what's right for me and what's wrong for me, so just tell me what to do. But that's really what gets us to where we're at in the first place. So, I really am trying to take some of the really important parts of the pro metabolic concept and then help women experience it.

Stand upon it to really decipher and figure out what is needed for their bodies and what's needed for them and what's right for them. And to not worry too much about stepping outside of the structure of rules, because sometimes that's exactly where our perfect diet lies, and it's up to us to really decipher that.

No one else can do that but us. Nobody. 

[01:10:27] Loren: Well, that's beautiful. And it goes along with the theme of everything that we've been talking about, you know, reestablishing the connection with yourself, following your intuition, not trying to hold on for dear life to control. It's really easy. to follow a diet, but if it truly works for us, that is to be determined.

And I think if we allow, like you said, contract out our health and wellness, our diets, our, our fertility,

[01:11:00] this is the perfect example of being a yes, yes, yes. There's no sort of sovereignty there. It's just, you know, you're kind of a mass of like, what everyone else thinks you should be or do with no clear compass or grounding there.

And I think that while that's hard to swallow or maybe hear sometimes, starting to unweave yourself. I guess that is kind of like an unraveling to truly get to the nitty gritty of what you need will just take you so much further and for life too. You know, you're not going to find, I think the same answer.

For what you need now versus like 10 years from now, I think it's not a matter of like defining, okay, this is what I should be eating. And this is what works for me right now. Like I'm going to follow this for the rest of my life. I think being able to do that on a constant basis and reevaluate and use your intuition as a compass.

[01:12:00] is the constant, whereas like everything else should be changing, or is probably likely to change. So it's not necessarily about like, determining, okay, I'm type A blood type, so I eat this diet for the rest of my life. Or, you know, I sleep X amount of hours and I live in this... Place only and I drank this kind of water and you know life is going to throw you curve balls And you have to be able to adapt and be resilient and to go with the flow as well So I think there's so much wisdom in what you said, and I hope that provides maybe a little more perspective at least for me 

[01:12:38] Jess: Yeah, yeah.

I love what you said about an unraveling. That's kind of how I see it, is like, we're all wrapped up in knots, and we're slowly just unraveling each knot. I love that visual. 

[01:12:50] Loren: It's, you know, self reflection, and little bit by bit. I think you, you know, kind of start to reclaim, reclaim, reclaim, and then you can create new [01:13:00] knots if you want, but hopefully they're more clear for you

[01:13:03] Jess: Exactly. 

[01:13:06] Loren: I'm trying to stick with the analogy. So just, this has been. an amazing conversation. I cannot thank you enough for your time and sharing your wisdom. I have one last question. And because this podcast is called the innate wisdom podcast, I mean, you've shared so many nuggets of wisdom already. I think like, it's beyond, but if the audience could do one thing, to start today.

And again, I contemplated not asking you this question because it is a very masculine thing to do. I hope by this time, the audience understands what I mean. And that like asking for a proactive step is masculine because it is in a way, but that said, I'm going to ask you anyway. And what is one thing that they could start doing today to unlock or start unlocking the innate wisdom of their body?

[01:14:03] Jess: Hmm. I would say just start paying attention. So I think what happens is we're so hyper focused on our symptoms or our pain or what we're dealing with that we see that and we're hyper focused on that and we were not zooming out always to all of the factors that maybe are surrounding that. And what I mean by that is like, let's say we are feeling really, really bad.

Our digestion's feeling really, really bad tonight and what's going through our head is, Oh, did I eat the wrong thing? Did I do this? Did I do this? Did I do this? What's going on? And instead just like zoom out and, Oh, I had a really, really tough conversation with my boss today and it's really left my stomach at knots.

Like just kind of recognizing that it's more than you and stop blaming yourself for the symptoms.

[01:15:00] Stop blaming yourself. Don't let yourself jump just to something that you have done or that is of any fault to you, but just zoom out and recognize that your body is there constantly responding to its environment and letting you know.

speaking to you. Now what it's trying to say, well, that's the conversation that only you can decipher, but it's having a conversation with you. And I know symptoms and, and when things pick up, it can be really hard to separate ourselves from them because they're uncomfortable. But sometimes it is required for us to just take a step back and say, What are you trying to say to me?

And sometimes we can find a lot of wisdom, not just about nutrition and our bodies and health, but also just about life in there because our body is really trying to guide us in a specific direction. And it does know what's good for us. Like we feel before we know. And so your power as a woman is to feel.

And so. Let the feelings communicate to you. So that's what I wish I would have been told a long time ago. 

[01:16:04] Loren: Me too, honestly. That is so valuable. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I hope that anyone walking away from this episode can take that and start implementing it. It's just a small little change, but it can be so powerful.

[01:16:19] Jess: So thank you for that. Thank you so much for having me. It's always an honor. I love our conversations. 

[01:16:25] Loren: Oh, me too. Yes. And one last thing. I lied. How can people find you and support you?

[01:16:31] Jess:Yeah. So I am pretty active on my Instagram at just gosh wellness. I also have my new podcast called the fully nourished podcast, which is what I'm investing a lot of my time and energy into right now.

And. If you're interested in more of my offerings, you can always visit my website, www. jessicaashwellness. com. So that's all. 

[01:16:53] Loren: Yes. Amazing. Go follow her. If you don't already, although you probably do. And go listen to her amazing new podcast. It is just. Such a wealth of knowledge and wisdom and I feel like you go so much deeper to on a lot of what we talked about Here and it's just so powerful Especially if you're somebody that's what she said earlier about kind of being in that soul deep burnout state Feeling that soul deep hunger.

You'll find some really nourishing stuff there Thank you. Yeah, of course. Well, thanks again, Jess. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to the Innate Wisdom Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please leave us a review and share the podcast with someone who you think might benefit.

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